Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules.

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Beepster
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2013/02/27 15:20:15 (permalink)

Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules.

My brain hurts but these things are pretty darned cool. 

That is all.

;-)
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    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 15:23:42 (permalink)
    Maybe I'll post my notes in a bit so this isn't a useless thread but I should be able to help folks having a hard time with them now so that's good.
    #2
    chuckebaby
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 15:27:59 (permalink)
    stay tuned buddy,got a short video comming on this as well.
    FX chains are nothing short of amazing.

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    jb101
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 15:47:25 (permalink)
    I'm sure a lot of people would find that helpful, Beepster.  They are great.
     
    Now we can put them in the PC, they're fantastic.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 15:55:37 (permalink)
    Looking forward to your video Charlie. 

    The last one was excellent

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    redbarchetta
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:00:42 (permalink)
    Cool dudes!
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    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:03:05 (permalink)
    Okay... so this is raw and mostly unedited straight from my notes. The first part is all my notes from the Groove3 X2 Explained vid. The second is a description of how to turn a stereo track into a mono track while compensating for the volume difference incurred and is from the Mixing with Sonar X1 tut. My apologies for any typos, errors or me just talking to myself... lol. Also it seems the forum is screwing up the formatting a little but I can't be arsed to fix it as I've got more crap to learn today. Cheers.

    Groove3 X2 Explained.

    FX Chain Modules:

    Right click in an FX bin and select FX Chain to insert a blank FX Chain.

    You can load an FX Chain preset by right clicking in the bin and selecting Load FX Chain Preset. 

      You can insert an FX Chain by dragging it from the Browser. To unbundle all of the effects in the Chain so they appear separately in the FX bin hold Shift then drag the Chain from the Browser into the bin.  

    You can replace the current contents of an FX bin with an FX Chain by holding Alt and dragging the chain into the bin from the Browser (this will also work with regular plugins).

    You can save the current FX bin contents as an FX Chain preset by right clicking and selecting Convert Bin to FX Chain Preset.  

     You can separate the effects in an FX Chain module so they appear individually in the bin by right clicking the FX Chain name in the bin and selecting Extract FX Chain Plugins. 

      You can save the current FX and all it's settings by right clicking on the FX Chain name in the FX bin and selecting Save FX Chain Preset. 

      You can also save an FX Chain by simply dragging it from the FX Bin into the Browser. 

    You can drag effects from one FX Chain Module to another by holding Shift and dragging the effect from one to the other (this seems to not work sometimes). To copy hold Ctrl while dragging.

      To delete an FX Chain from the bin right click and select Delete or click on the chain and press Delete on the keyboard. 

      When you insert an FX Chain the FX Chain module will appear. To insert effects into the module right click in the bottom bar of the module where it says In/Out and select the desired plugins. You can also drag effects into the module from the Browser. 

      The inserted effects will appear in the bottom bar of the module between where it says In/Out. You can rearrange the modules by clicking and dragging them. It does not seem that you can copy and drag/paste effects. Once you get above a certain amount of effects inserted (four I think) then the two little black squares on either side of the effect names will contain arrows that can be clicked on the scroll through the inserted effects.

    Press the effects  power buttons or right click to bypass effects. Right click > Delete to  delete effects.

    You can bypass the entire chain by clicking the main power button at the top right of the module. 

      Input/Output faders on the left/right of the module controls the input and output levels for the Chain. 

      You can rename the FX Chain in the name box at the top of the module by double clicking it. You can also rename an FX Chain in the Browser. 

      The large middle area of the module is called the FX Chain Properties Page. Right click to insert a knob or button to control a specific parameter of one of the inserted effects. You can only add 6 knobs and/or buttons so choose the most relevant parameters.

    When you right click and select Add Knob or Add Button you will open the Control Properties page for that Knob or Button. The Name field allows you to name the control. The Position dropdown allows you to select what spot in the Properties area the Knob or Button will appear. The four destination fields allows you to select the inserted effect parameter(s) you want to control with that knob or button meaning you can control up to four parameters with one control and these can be from any of the inserted effects. The Start/End field will set parameter points that the control will be constrained to. For a Knob the Start point will be the setting that will be applied when the knob is turned all the way to the left and the End point will the setting applied when the knob is turned all the way to the right. Then you can sweep the knob between these to points. For a button the Start field will determine what setting the chosen parameter will be when the button is off and the End field will determine what setting the parameter will be set to when it is turned on. 

    You can also add a knob or button by right clicking in the FX Chain Properties area > select Learn Knob (or Button) then double click on one of the effects in the Chain to open the effect's GUI and manipulate one of the paramters. Now right click on the FX Chain's properties area again and you will see that the Learn Knob (or Button) option has a checkmark beside it. Click that option and a dialog will open saying that "(x) amount of Parameters were touched during Learn. Are you sure you want to assign these controls?". Click Yes and a new knob (or button) will appear in the FX Chain that is linked to that parameter. Now you can right click on the control and select edit to set the new control's properties. This is super useful because sometimes due to odd naming conventions on specific parameter control it may not be apparent which parameter name to choose using the Destination fields.

    You can set parameter ranges of a control knob by setting the parameters within an effects GUI instead of using the Start/End fields of the Control Properties dialog. To do this right click on an FX Chain control knob that has already been assigned to a parameter. You will see a Ranges option and within that sub menu "All Parameters - Set Start" and "All Parameters - Set End". Before selecting these go to the parameter within the effect's GUI that the FX Chain knob controls and set the lowest value you want the knob to reach, now right click the knob in the FX Chain and select Ranges > Set All Parameters - Set Start. Now when you turn the FX Chain knob all the way down the actual effect parameter will stop at the point you set. Now set the desired End value in the effect's GUI and in the FX Chain knob's right click menu select All Paramaters - Set End. Now when the knob is turned all the way up the effect parameter will stop at that point.

    If you right click on the FX Chain knob you can set a double click default value. Set the knob to the desired value, right click and select Set Default Value. Now when you double click the knob it will return to that setting.

    You can customize how the FX Chain module looks by right clicking in the FX Chain properties area and selecting Customize UI then choose colors or images for each section from your computer.

    ================================

    FX Chain MONO MAKER EXAMPLE

    Mono Maker (FX Bin Automation tut):

    This is going to turn the drum bus into a mono signal (thus making all the drum tracks play in mono) for a section of the song to create a different effect. Turning a stereo track to mono like this can make it cut through a dense mix a little better. It can create more energy and width because it is getting out of the way of the other frequencies in the stereo field. He is doing this for a rather hectic build up in the example song.

    In this he uses the FX Chain feature which I'm not sure is necessary but it does have some special on/off style features which seem to facilitate the process. Remember this is in X1 so it may be different in X2 (it's actually not different in X2).

    Make sure you do not have the Automation Read button enabled on the bus.

    Right click in the FX Bin and select FX Chain (this will insert an FX Chain module into the bin and a blank FX Chain property page will open. If not double click FX Chain in the bin).

    Right click on In/Out in the FX Chain GUI and select Channel Tools.

    Then Right click in a blank space in the FX Chain GUI and select Add Button. A Control Properties dilaog will pop up which I will now refer to as the Button Properties Dialog. Name the button (Make Mono).

    In the Button Properties Dialog there are four dropdown menus under the section labeled Destination. Click the first Destination dropdown. This will give you a list of the plugins that have been inserted into the FX Chain and every plugin listed will have a sub menu that lists all of that plugins control parameters. In the Channel Tools sub menu select "Angle L". That is the Left Channel Angle control (the Left fader in the Pro Channel Plug In).

    In the second Destination dropdown do the same thing except select the Right Angle controller (Angle R).

    Now in the Start/End parameter boxes leave Start value on the left controller at 0% (this is hard left) and change the End value to 50%. On the Right controller set the Start value at 100% (this is hard right) and the end value at 50%. This will make it so when the button is engaged both faders will jump to their center positions (centre pan which will create the mono effect).

    Now he clicks OK and tests out the button but he hasn't set the other parameters yet so do the following first or if you do click OK then right click on the button and select Edit Control and the Button Properties Dialog will reopen.

    Making the track mono will increase the volume of the track so the Gain needs to be automated so that when the button is enabled it is turned down slightly to compensate. To do this:

    Select the Left and Right Gain controls in the two remaining destination slots in the Button Properties Dialog (one control in each slot).

    The start and End values are in Percent but the controls are in dBs and there is no way to figure out how that translates so through trial and error you have to figure out what percentage value will produce the desired dB value. I guess this can be done by entering a value into one of the Start/End boxes and clicking the button to see where the knob ends up in dB values. Once the desired values are determined enter them into the Start/End value boxes.

    For this he wants both the Left and Right Gain values to go down to -3 dB when the Mono Maker button is engaged (the start value is 0 dB). The perecentage values to do this are 75% on both left and right to achieve 0 dB as the Start value and 65% on both Left and Right End values to acheive -3 dB. Adjust the End values if they end up being too loud or quiet.

    Test this by clicking the button to make sure the knobs and faders are going to the right spots. Then start playback and engage/disengage the Mono Maker FX Chain's power button in the FX Bin to check that the levels between on and off are okay (should be no noticeable increases/decrease in volume).

    Now click on the Bus's (drums) edit filter, select Automation > Mono Maker (or whatever you named the FX chain) > Make Mono (or whatever you named the button). This will put an automation envelope for the button in the Track View. Then insert some automation nodes onto the envelope around where you want to engage the effect and drag the line between the nodes upward (basic automation envelope editing). Make sure you have enabled the bus/track's Read Automation button. Now the effect will turn on at that part automatically.

    EDIT: Fixed up the formatting a little so it's easier to read.
    post edited by Beepster - 2013/02/28 11:03:38
    #7
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:09:55 (permalink)
    @Charlie... Yeah, do it man. You are very concise in video format.

    @jb... done and done.

    @redbarchetta... You're like the new me around here. Hungry for knowledge. ;-)
    #8
    scook
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:18:34 (permalink)
    One thing I learned last night was that buttons and knobs respond to automation the same way. Based on the automation curve, attributes assigned to buttons move from their min value through max value just like knobs. Not sure if this was the intended behavior.

    It would be nice it buttons and knobs could be assigned to groups.
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    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:24:07 (permalink)
    Not sure what you're getting at, scook but if I'm reading that right it would explain why the guy doing the Mixing with X1 vid set his envelopes so hard to achieve an on/off effect. That struck me as a little weird but it works so whatevs. I figured a better way would be to just write automate the button but I'm not sure if that's an option... and it obviously would be as precise if it wasn't engaged spot on.

    It'd be kind of cool if there were a way to slow things down to make precise real time automation edits. Maybe there is and I just haven't stumbled across it yet.
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    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:25:16 (permalink)
    Oh and FX Chain buttons do seem to be kind of silly considering the exact same thing can be achieved with knobs as far as I can tell.
    #11
    scook
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:36:01 (permalink)
    Buttons are a convenient way to toggle a collection of values. There are FX that have buttons that you might want to map in an FX chain. They also save a little space in the GUI and space in the PC is pretty tight. Hopefully, the automation behavior is by design and not a bug. It is easy enough to make the automation toggle by jumping between nodes. Having the ability to continuously adjust button values via automation effectively doubles the number of automation knobs.
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    redbarchetta
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 16:56:22 (permalink)
    Beepster
    @redbarchetta... You're like the new me around here. Hungry for knowledge. ;-)

    Yeah and you know the funny thing, it all started becasue I just wanted to learn how to capture my guitar riffs and have them sound good.  That's the way it is with me, some small little idea snowballs into some HUGE knowledge lust.
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    chuckebaby
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 17:26:02 (permalink)
    Beepster


    Oh and FX Chain buttons do seem to be kind of silly considering the exact same thing can be achieved with knobs as far as I can tell.
    imagine there are 3 effects you are fine tuning only certain parameters on,having all these plug ins open is a mess for real estate.
    assigned knobs that see ferquent use are a delight now in the FX-C


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    #14
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 17:43:50 (permalink)
    I may be misunderstanding Charlie but I meant the difference between the buttons and knobs inside the FX Chain modules. I definitely see the use of having a single knob control multiple effects. I just meant that the buttons seem like a redundancy. I'm sure I'm missing something though.

    And I forgot to put in those notes that the FX Chain modules can be tossed in the ProChannel in X2 but I'm sure most folks know about that one. I may actually start doing things that way instead of using bins for my effects... maybe.
    #15
    scook
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 17:50:57 (permalink)
    There are a cases where buttons are preferable to knobs. They provide a direct mapping to FX buttons and switches, for example some FX have on/off buttons, like the Cakewalk Tempo Delay power button or feature toggles, like the limiter button on the Sonitus Compressor.
    #16
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 17:56:10 (permalink)
    @scook... And there it is. Yeah... brain is fried. I forgot about... actual button parameters. lol

    It's because of the way the Mixing with X1 guy dealt with the knobs and faders in Channels Tools that was binding up my noodle. No excuse though. I just wasn't thinking.

    Cheers.
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    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 18:00:58 (permalink)
    All this has given me an idea on how to deal with my guitar parts now though. I'm gonna try tossing my amp sims into a Chain and then putting it as the first module of the ProChannel. I figure it would be more like getting a direct amp signal going into everything as opposed to using the bins. The pre/post status always confuses the heck out of me so I think that might be a way to make things easier.

    But then again it might just sound like arse. Worth a shot though.
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    jb101
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 18:08:31 (permalink)
    I now almost never use the bin.  I add al effects n the ProChannel.  It makes it easy to change the signal flow.
     
    You can simply drag the effect around to experiment where it sounds better.  So, with amp sims, sometimes I compress before Amp, then EQ after, or compressor and EQ before, or EQ, then amp, then another EQ, then compressor, etc. etc..  You get the idea.  The ease of use is was keeps me in the PC all the time now.

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    stoutlyric
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/27 23:41:44 (permalink)
    Beepster!  Thanks for all of the info.

    One thing that is not working for me is drag and dropping the fxchain from the media browser.

    Were you doing this to pro channel or to the fx bin?  

    I'm on X2a studio. 

    #20
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 07:31:33 (permalink)
    Hi, stoutlyric. No problem. Figure it's better to share info when possible.

    As far as Drag and Drop from the browser I'm pretty sure I tested it and it worked. I believe I was dropping the Chains into the FX Bin in the Track Pane but I might have been using the FX Bin in the Console View strips. Either way it should work... just like dropping a regular plug in into the bin. I did not try using the bin in the Inspector if that's what you mean but I'll try it out later when I'm in front of my DAW.

    I'm on build 308 (Quickfix) though so maybe it's a new bug in X2a. Cheers.
    #21
    stoutlyric
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 09:55:01 (permalink)
    I tried dragging and dropping into the track view, console view, and the inspector and none of them worked.
    #22
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 10:08:53 (permalink)
    I just tried it in Track Pane, Console (track and bus strips), in the Inspector strips, in the Clip Inspector and dragging directly onto a clip. All of them worked. Not sure why it's not working on your end.

    Just to be thorough:

    Open the Browser (press B)

    Select the Plug Ins tab 

    Press the Audio FX button

    At the bottom of the plug in list click the + button beside where it says FX Chain to expand the Chain choices

    Click the + button beside one of the sub folders (just for this choose Drums)

    Now you should be at the bottom of the folder and looking at the actual FX Chains

    Click and Drag the Chain that says Automate Me into one of the bins I listed above.

    That should do it. Maybe you were trying to drag one of the folders into the bin which doesn't work for obvious reasons.

    If it doesn't work I have no idea what could be wrong and I would contact Cake tech support to see what's up.

    Cheers.
    #23
    Frostysnake
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 10:38:34 (permalink)
    Thank you VERY much Beeper!   ...I have this thread book marked!

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    #24
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 10:53:42 (permalink)
    Right on, Frosty. Glad it helped. They are pretty complex but soooooo cool. Can't wait to start tossing them into my projects. Cheers.
    #25
    stoutlyric
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 12:14:46 (permalink)
    That was it, I was using the media browser tab going directly to the fxchain file. Using the plugins tab worked perfect.

    Thanks for the help.
    #26
    Beepster
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    Re:Oof... Just learned pretty much everything about working with FX Chain modules. 2013/02/28 12:20:23 (permalink)
    Huh. That's kind of weird. I figured it wouldn't matter where you accessed them from. Guess I learned something new myself. Glad it's working for you though. Cheers.
    #27
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