mix method advice needed

I have found the videos that this guy does worthwhile:  http://therecordingrevolution.com/

on the bass guitar, I am notching  -3db down for the kick drum low end, also notching out -12 db around 200 hz so the guitars blend better, adding a little bit to 1khz just to make the bass a bit more defined. I am making sure the bass is not "boomy" 

There is no set methods and set dB's to cut, boost or shelve. You do what ever it takes to get the best sound that you are going for. If that means cutting 20dB at 200hZ ,then thats what you need to do. 


So if it sounds good to you, then your on the right track. 


Each instrument in each song will need different effects and things done to it in order for each instrument to fit in the song. The same exact instrument will sound different when inserted into 2 different songs, so you just do what ever it takes to get your sound. 
This is also why you should not solo tracks when applying effects to them

I've always gone with this method.

For each track, make sure the instrument sound the way you want it to sound regardless of how it sounds with other instruments. Hopefully this can be achieved in the tracking stage. It's always best to record the best possible signal.

Next eq the instruments so they blend well with other instruments. This is an art form all it's own. You can use graphs to guide you but never rely on them. Rely on your ears.

When in doubt, let your ears guide you.

Thanks guys. I am using the analyzer to identify freqs. I know some guys can hear something and just know what frequency it is. or example, I put it on the kick drums so I could identify the freq, then went to the bass guitar track, plugged in the freq and started moving it around while the whole mix was going to listen to where there was a good balance between the kick and the bass and both still be heard. pretty much the same on all tracks. I know there are no "set in stone rules" and each song is differrent. Maybe I don't know the right questions to ask.   I think I am still struggling with what does a good vocal sound like, for example.  I will use no eq and think it sound good, the next day I will eq a little and think it sounds good, a few days later use a bunch of eq and think it sounds good. then one day realize it doesn't sound good, so eliminate all of the eq and then it seems to sound good again.  yep..repeat crazyness on the rest of the tracks... I read an article today about losing perspective of the mix. I'm guilty!

@Sharke, actually that does help. Good tip with shelving and turning up.

I would not get too carried away looking at spectrum analysers while mixing. What are you expecting to see anyway. Something may sound great but have a slightly skew frequency plot. So do you change it to make it look right. And what does look right look like. Flat response? Maybe not. It might need that skew looking plot to sound right. Or do you leave it alone because it sounds right already.

Your ears and your monitors are a very good analysing tool.

The only time I might drag out a frequency analyser is when after a day of mixing and your ears are shot and you are trying make a vocal sit in a mix better but there is some energy in some part of the spectrum that is sticking out a bit. You are not nailing where it is so you might put the analyser over it then and see where the problem may be. Often it is lower down than you think too.

They're quite handy over a final mix at the mastering stage for a bit of a look. But then I have usually got some great reference material on hand to compare to and you ears will soon let you know if you have strayed away too much from the ref material.

Bristol_Jonesey

Another one is Roey Izhaki's "Mixing Audio: Concepts, Practices and Tools"

 
+100 to that, but you might want to work (not just read!) yourself through that book twice as it is really contains a lot of good information
 
BTW, Roey suggests in his book to prepare a mix excerpts CD (or DAW project) where you take a number of different songs from different albums but use only 20 seconds of each song before fading it quickly into the next one (prepare it to get about 10-15 minutes worth of 20 sec excerpts). I suggest you use songs of genres you intend to mix and throw in a couple you believe to know very well.
 
Now listen to these excerpts and you'll see how VERY different each song was produced. Do that without any analyzer display. Just listen to that a couple of times. It's pretty amazing to realize how many different styles of mixing you can hear that all sound pretty damn good (if it fits the song!). Some may sound really odd when listened to in short succession to a different mix, but just because the differences stand out so clearly.
 
Well, and if you really want, you can repeat the exercise with some sort of analyzer display, but that'll only show you that you can get great sounding stuff even without balacing out all frequencies, having stereo imbalance, whatever ... as long as it fits the piece of art you're mixing ...

Some time ago someone posted the following text and I saved it into a text file and I keep it in my projects folder for reference. It's by no means written in stone, and of course all of the information in it is approximate and will vary in different circumstances and with different instruments, but what I've found is that it's gives me a ballpark range of where to start with cutting and boosting frequencies when mixing. Use sparingly, and be prepared to use the figures as nothing more than a head start. 

FREQUENCY: 
USES: 
50Hz 
1. Increase to add more fullness to lowest frequency instruments like foot, floor tom, and the bass. 
2. Reduce to decrease the "boom" of the bass and will increase overtones and the recognition of bass line in the mix. This is most often used on loud bass lines like rock. 
100Hz 
1. Increase to add a harder bass sound to lowest frequency instruments. 
2. Increase to add fullness to guitars, snare. 
3. Increase to add warmth to piano and horns. 
4. Reduce to remove boom on guitars & increase clarity. 
200Hz 
1. Increase to add fullness to vocals. 
2. Increase to add fullness to snare and guitar ( harder sound ). 
3. Reduce to decrease muddiness of vocals or mid-range instruments. 
4. Reduce to decrease gong sound of cymbals. 
400Hz 
1. Increase to add clarity to bass lines especially when speakers are at low volume. 
2. Reduce to decrease "cardboard" sound of lower drums (foot and toms). 
3. Reduce to decrease ambiance on cymbals. 
800Hz 
1. Increase for clarity and "punch" of bass. 
2. Reduce to remove "cheap" sound of guitars. 
1.5KHz 
1. Increase for "clarity" and "pluck" of bass. 
2. Reduce to remove dullness of guitars. 
3KHz 
1. Increase for more "pluck" of bass. 
2. Increase for more attack of electric / acoustic guitar. 
3. Increase for more attack on low piano parts. 
4. Increase for more clarity / hardness on voice. 
5. Reduce to increase breathy, soft sound on background vocals. 
6. Reduce to disguise out-of-tune vocals / guitars. 
5KHz 
1. Increase for vocal presence. 
2. Increase low frequency drum attack ( foot / toms). 
3. Increase for more "finger sound" on bass. 
4. Increase attack of piano, acoustic guitar and brightness on guitars (especially rock guitars). 
5. Reduce to make background parts more distant. 
6. Reduce to soften "thin" guitar. 
7KHz 
1. Increase to add attack on low frequency drums ( more metallic sound ). 
2. Increase to add attack to percussion instruments. 
3. Increase on dull singer. 
4. Increase for more "finger sound" on acoustic bass. 
5. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers. 
6. Increase to add sharpness to synthesizers, rock guitars, acoustic guitar and piano. 
  10KHz 
1. Increase to brighten vocals. 
2. Increase for "light brightness" in acoustic guitar and piano. 
3. Increase for hardness on cymbals. 
4. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers. 
15KHz 
1. Increase to brighten vocals (breath sound). 
2. Increase to brighten cymbals, string instruments and flutes. 
3. Increase to make sampled synthesizer sound more real. 

TraceyStudios


  
once I have finished tracking, i am using s spectrum analyzer on each channel and shelfing out the unused/unneeded freqs, both hi and lo
 
on the bass guitar, I am notching  -3db down for the kick drum low end, also notching out -12 db around 200 hz so the guitars blend better, adding a little bit to 1khz just to make the bass a bit more defined. I am making sure the bass is not "boomy"
 
drums, not really doing much on the drums other than some panning,compressing, gating and shelving out the unused freqs
 
guitars - I get a bit confused about this cuz I use amps sims and there is an eq on the amp sim (low, mid & high). I sometimes get into this "back and forth". I set up the guitar sims usually about the same, not a ton of distortion, lows around 4, mids around 5 or 6 highs around 6 or 7. trying to keep it kinda flat, then i go to the eq on the channel to make additional eq adjustments. and here is where I get confused. Should I make the eq adjustments in the amp sim or on the channel? I am recording hard rock, so what/how do i eq the guitar to "cut thru" a little bit? I feel like i get in this cycle of adjusting the amp sim and then adjusting the eq on the channel in the opposite fashion I just adjusted the amp sim... make sense?  I am also carving out (-3 to -5 db) around 600hz to make room for the vocals.
 
vocals - haven't done much to them other than shelving and compression, still need to learn about eqing the vocals.
 
Overall, I am panning almost every channel to a differrent position, trying to make space for everything.  Kick, Bass and Lead vocals are pretty much centered.  i am watching the master meter and trying not to peak over -3db. While also trying to keep it consitently around -6.  
 
I have noticed my mixes are getting much cleaner, but I am just not getting the clarity on the guitar and the bass.
 
Am I on the right track?

I use spectrum analyzers as a second opinion. My ears are my first opinion. If I make a change because of something the spectrum analyzer says and my ears disagree then I go with what my ears tell me.


Sounds to me like you are doing a lot of things right and it is obvious that the last few months you spent learning mixing techniques is beginning to pay off. To me the most important thing in mixing is the wrong use of EQ and Compression. I have seen people ruin things because they started to use something that thought would help their mix. because they did not use the EQ right they wind up adding more mud and it in turn makes things sound worse. You have probably already learned this but there are a few things to be aware of when using EQ


1. Boosting EQ will boost noise too.

2. Deep and narrow EQ boosts sound more obvious and unnatural then deep and narrow cuts.

3. EQ boosts sound more natural over a wider frequency range with a slight with just a couple of DB gain.

4. Before boosting a certain area try cutting the frequencies you feel are overpowering the area you want to boost.

5. Sounds will sit better in the mix by using low and high pass filters. This will remove low or high end from the signal in an area that the signal does not occupy. For example using a high pass filter on a bass will help the bass sit well in the mix. Using a low pass filter on a guitar will help it to sit better in the mix.

6. If you add a lot of EQ boost you run the risk of clipping your signal. This will add unwanted distortion to your sound and ruin your headroom. If you need to significantly boost your signal make sure to reduce the volume level in the track or mix. If you boost try reducing the output volume of the EQ.

7. The effect of cutting the low frequencies will often make the high frequencies seem brighter. This goes back to the cutting before boosting rule.

8. Changing the EQ will change the level of the instrument in the mix. You may need to readjust the level of the instrument once you have applied EQ.

9. Don’t EQ in solo mode only. Check the way the instrument sounds in the general mix before you move on.

10 Human hearing is not flat. Our ears are more sensitive to the midrange frequencies. Extreme lows and highs in the frequency spectrum are harder for our ears to pick up.

11. For this reason a Smile shaped EQ curve will promote the illusion of loudness and power. This is done by boosting the low and high ends of the frequency spectrum.

12. In most cases high and low pass filters have steeper slopes than regular EQ bands.

13. Cut the low end off of instruments that are not meant to be bass instruments. This will open up more headroom.

14 The bypass button is your friend. Do A/B comparisons while applying EQ to your signal. It is easy to lose perspective as you make your adjustments.

15. Use EQ to separate two similar sounds in a mix. The amount of overlap in a given area can make them sound muddy and the ear will struggle to separate the two sounds.

16 Contrast between instruments is a good thing.

17. First cut then boost.

18. Less is more.

19. Take breaks to give your ears a rest.

20. Check the harmonics of problem frequencies. This is where a good spectrum analyzer comes in handy like the one from Blue Cat. 

It sounds like you are already doing a lot of these things. The more you mix the better you get. Like anything else to get better you need to practice. It sounds to me like you are on the right track.

I Think the thing about mixing with amp sims is there is a difference to getting a good sound on an amp sim and getting it to play nice with the rest of the mix. There have been times when I solo the guitar and got a tone I liked only to discover it did not work well with that particular mix. In the end I changed out the amp and got better results. Keep that option open. So when adjusting the guitar if I want to make tone adjustments I use the EQ on the amp sim. If I am trying to make it sit better in the mix and cut through then I use the channel EQ. 

Of course I am just speaking of my opinion and the way I do things. It does not necessarily make my approach the right one or the only one. 

I like reading books for technique and instructional guidance, but I like videos way better. When Eli, Karl, et al are explaining things in the videos, they do a lot of A-B comparisons, those a-b comparisons are worth their weight in gold...especially when coupled with an explanation of what the instructors are trying to avoid and/or enhance. I downloaded many of these videos at work and watched them on break, but the real learning took place in my studio on those specific speakers so that I could hear the nuances. I would encourage you to leave spectrum analyzer alone not because it's not good... but because you really need your ears to tell you that you are enjoying the sound not your eyes. I believe in going track by track like you are doing, but I still go back and make tweaks when bringing it altogether.... then I put together something to listen to in my car stereo and live with it for a few days and take note to what seems accentuated and do I like it or not. How many here actually listen to their music in a perfect ambience setting with a mega sound system milking every nuance of the sound for pure listening pleasure...??? ME NEITHER, I listen to most music in my car, the shower, or on headphones or some cheap "REALISTIC" brand p.a. system in a cheap bar. There is no right or wrong way. Just know your audience.

Guitarpima


If you want to know what frequencies are occupied by an instrument then you need to download a frequency chart. Just do a search. They are very handy to have but again, use your ears.

I think an analyser like Spam does it much more accurately. Samples of a certain  instrument  from different manucacturers or respective patches in different synths may sound very different. IMO, a frequency chart is truthfull only when you use very "au naturel", dry samples of acoustic instruments. Even human voice with the same mic varies much depending on the amount of proximity.
 
Also, an analyser can be very necessary if your monitor speakers can't reproduce low enough, so you learn to spot rumbles that are inaudible in your system but may be very disturbing in other reproduction systems. Often such rumbles don't disturb you when checking with headphones, but enhanced by room acoustics they can sabotage the mix.
 
Having used an analyser for some time you learn the tricks and need it less and less.