sharke
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The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SgU1FgoQEs Am I right in assuming that the verses are 3 bars of 4/4 and then a bar of 6/4? Can't quite wrap my head around the flow of this.
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jamesg1213
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 13:51:00
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Could be. Or 2 bars 4/4, 2 bars 5/4.
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sharke
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 14:03:32
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jamesg1213 Could be. Or 2 bars 4/4, 2 bars 5/4. Hmm, technically yes, but I was using the bass line as a guide...
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jamesg1213
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 14:08:31
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I'm just guessing. I can't really feel the '1' after the 2nd bar at all.
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sharke
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 14:09:50
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It's definitely confusing.
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jamesg1213
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 14:21:18
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yorolpal
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 15:44:35
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This is an example of simply keying on the singer and not worrying about cohesive bar structure. You hear the same thing in old Bluegrass and Blues tunes all the time. It's not that they simply add a 2/4 bar instead of a 4/4 bar at the same time every verse or chorus... it's that there really is no rhyme or reason other than when the singer decides to come back in. Usually it's a single bar count that gets dropped making it, say, seven bars of 4 and one of...well...1. Can be frustrating and downright corrrnnnnfusin. But once you've had to back up a slew of "singers" who can't count it gets easy to "catch em". PS: if you listen close you can hear the bass player move to the 4 chord incorrectly later in the tune throwing everybody off for about a nanosecond.
post edited by yorolpal - 2013/03/17 15:46:53
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quantumeffect
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 22:56:07
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Wrt to the bass line, I am counting it more as 4 measures of 4/4 and a measure of 2/4 instead of counting that last measure as 6/4 … reason being, it just sounds like they stuck 2 extra notes in there to get the vocals to come around. It’s not like a measure of 6/4 where they are completing a musical idea. The vocals are arranged so they don’t step on each other. The “call” picks up on beat 4 at the end of the intro and stops on beat 1 of measure 3. The “response” (Buick 59, Buick 59) starts on beat 3 of measure 3 and stops on beat 1 of what would be measure 5. From that point on, to keep the math correct and prevent the vocals from stepping on each other, that 5th measure is a measure of 2/4 with the response stopping on beat 1 and the call picking up on beat 2. It’s not random … an arranger sat down and did the math. … just a drummers perspective.
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yorolpal
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 23:20:01
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No, it's not random...but no arranger sat down and did the math...that's just the way they did it...in rehearsal and in performance. It's simply primitivism made manifest. Rock on.
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sharke
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 23:39:31
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I think it's definitely planned. I understand when blues/folk performers add random beats here and there to fit the words, but that's more of a spontaneous thing which can change from performance to performance, and is usually when it's a solo performance. I do it myself when improvising solo fingerpicking pieces. However when you have a band cutting a track in the studio I'm pretty sure the structure was deliberate, even if the performances were flexible to some extent. I hear it a lot in traditional Irish tunes, especially when there's a vocal. However, when a band takes a traditional song and turns it into an arrangement for multiple musicians, they still sometimes throw those "random" extra beats in, only they're not so random. It's a way of giving an ensemble performance a more authentic, organic feeling. Take P Stands For Paddy as recorded by Planxty, plenty of extra beats thrown in, but it's obvious they've practiced the bejesus out of that arrangement. But it still throws me, and I have a hard time counting it, especially in a tune like this where the bass line is so familiar yet throws you that curve ball. I often wonder whether it sounds odd to me simply because I have a musical mind which looks out for this stuff, whereas if you never think about music theory, it mind sound totally natural. Another example is Blackwaterside by Bert Jansch, I transcribed it years ago and it took me ages to get my head around all the bars of different length. But I remember playing it for a non-musical friend and asked him whether he found anything weird about the rhythm...he said he didn't.
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sharke
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/17 23:41:17
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quantumeffect
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/18 00:06:53
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sharke jamesg1213 They seem to be doing it as a straight 12 bar shuffle here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RXGDcXa0E Maybe they focus-grouped it That's funny ... I just listened to this one and you are probably right. The extra two beats were probably deemed too cerebral for the modern listener. In this version they just shifted the response to beat 1 instead of beat 3 ... and just let the call and response step on each other. Again, I suspect somebody gave the vocal arrangement a lot of thought in the original version.
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yorolpal
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/18 00:10:26
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I'm not saying its not "planned". I'm saying that that's just the way they want to perform it...for whatever reason. And so they do. It doesn't make musical sense...but no one cares. It's how they feel it. This is so ubiquitous in modern folk, blues and gospel music as to be entirely mundane. But it is not some sort of calculated, musically pedagogical variance. This is just basic "feel" writ large. Nothing more.
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KenB123
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Re:The Medallions - Buick 59 - help with rhythm?
2013/03/18 09:34:53
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Interesting song pick, Sharke. Definitely get ones attention. My $.02, I go with Yorolpal in this. Performance is simple. Lead vocal track, backup vocals, hand-claps, piano player (playing bass and chords). I think the lead vocalist just went with it, and might have a poor sense of song structure/timing(?). The piano player just followed behind (or played catchup) in some spots. The handclaps are not an issue because they just follow the steady beat. The backup singers aren't an issue. They also come in based on the lead vocal line. Everything is keyed off the lead vocalist. I wouldn't doubt if this was a one-shot recording. It worked well enough, so they kept it. And as the link Jamesg1213 posted, this shows a more recent performance and it is straightforward with the timing. I do like the song (odd timing and all).
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