Stygian
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foxwolfen
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 00:10:50
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You did not seem to be very receptive to mixing suggestions last time you posted, so I am hesitant to offer any now. I encourage you to participate in the forum and listen to other people as they work on their mixes, that way you will, with time, begin to understand some of the flaws or new comer mistakes in your own work and learn how to improve it. This is an interesting song though. With polish, it could be good. I will offer one suggestion, and that is the same one I make to another (well respected) vocal artist here, and that is you need to relax on the vibrato. There is appropriate use, and there is use that makes it hard to listen too. This song demonstrated the latter.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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sharke
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 01:33:15
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The most noticeable problem with this mix is that the vocal seems disconnected from everything else, as if it's part of a different space than the rest of the instruments. It almost sounds like you're singing along with a backing track. Also, the drums sound great during the verses but then get swamped during the choruses. Good song though, lots of potential.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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blipp
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 06:32:33
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I liked the track: Had a kind of CSN & Y vibe to me. The mix is all over the place though, especially the vocals. They're so loud and disconnected compared to the rest of the track that it sounds like a bad version of karaoke. This track has so much potential, but it's being completely ruined by the mix. I'm not that brilliant at mixing this style of music, but others here are very knwledgeable and can help you if you listen to their advice and take it. Will look forward to listening againg when the mix is sorted.
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Stygian
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 07:13:32
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I am confused how I was not receptive Foxwolfen. I did not use any reverb except toward the end on some back vocals and as far as the vibrato I guess that unfortunately is how I sing. I was told the last time my vocals were too low so I turned up the gain and made them louder.
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Metaphasic
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 10:42:37
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As this is your second attempt, I wouldn't say it was completely horrible. It is much better than my own second attempt 30 some years ago. I would suggest reading some good material on recording and mastering though. If you can, spend some time in a local studio too because sometimes the real world likes to break the rules. You just have to know when and how to do it. The song itself is not my preferred genre, so I find it hard to comment on. I don't know what your goals were with it after all. However, here are some production things I noticed (again, these may be intentional, I don't know): volume levels seemed very disparate between instruments, equalization didn't seem right (bass had no distinct low, guitars had no distinct mids, etc), relative thinness in the sound. You should highlight the frequency range each instrument is known for. Sometimes they overlap, like kick drums and bass. In this case, pick one to highlight and carry the weight. You should be doing multiple takes for each instrument. Bad ones you can ditch, the good ones you can keep, layering them for a fuller sound. If you pan half left, and the other right, with a slightly different EQ, it can achieve a much better result than using a chorus effect. Anyway, that's my thoughts. =)
post edited by Serenarules - 2013/03/21 10:43:59
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Lynn
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 11:39:09
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Janine, this song isn't very far from being a gem. After listening to it twice, I find it catchy and clever on several levels. If you turned down the lead vox a bit it would fit into the mix just fine. The drums could come up a little to give it more drive, but the arrangement is good overall. I don't mind your vibrato at all. In fact, it's not uncommon nowdays (anyone remember Tracy Chapman or Adele?). I've heard a number of people on this forum praised for vocals that would embarrass Kermit the frog. A few little tweaks and you have a fine mix.
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foxwolfen
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 11:57:21
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Well, using this thread as an example, you mention that vibrato is just the way you sing. That leaves me with the impression of somebody just shrugging. Last song when people pointed out the problems with the verb, you replied "I like the verb". If I am mistaken, and its a misunderstanding of your style (easy enough to do in written media like this forum), then please forgive me.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Stygian
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 22:26:31
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I really do appreciate everyone's input. If there are things I did not address in this second attempt, some of it is due to lack of experience. Also, I am using this prefabricated music that came with this program. Probably explains why it sounds like I am singing to a backing track. Also, I am just a gal sitting in my kitchen playing around on a computer singing into a desktop mic. :) This is just a hobby to see how some of my lyrics would sound to music. I do not mean to shrug at the vibrato suggestion. I think without the vibrato in certain sections the song would not work and to be honest it really is the way I tend to sing. So, foxwolfen, from you comments about the vibrato, I felt like you are basically telling me I do not know how to sing and that my voice is hard to listen to. And if that is what you meant well you are entitled to your opinion. Just like I should be entitled to my opinion of liking the reverb in my first song. (I think I said I would work on it, however). I just feel as an assertive person I should be able to post on this forum, ask for suggestions, and decide which suggestions to take, and keep certain things about my song I like even though I might have received some suggestions to change them. Keeping certain things in my song because I like it helps me stay true to myself as an individual and would not be meant as disrepect to anyone.
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foxwolfen
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/21 23:52:34
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Of course. I am not asking you to be anything but true to yourself. But we all have room for improvement. Vocals are an instrument like any other, and there are correct and incorrect ways to play any instrument. Vibrato of the sort you use is (IMO) a tool used by those who do not have confidence in the pitch of their vocals. By using this sort of vibrato, it becomes a means to disguise the uneven pitch. But the uneven pitch is not due to ability.. it is due to practice. And the one thing to keep in mind is that the people who are listening to your music here... have put a lot of practice in. A lot of time and effort, which is now being shared with you. If I though you could not sing, I would say so. Directly and clearly. What I said was, that sort of vibrato is hard to listen too, not your voice.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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jamesg1213
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/22 10:34:18
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Hi Janine, I like the song and your voice. Interesting subject matter and lyrics too. Something odd happens at around 2:20, the guitars and drums seem to slip out of time with each other, then it gets better at 2:54.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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evadianepug
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/22 10:37:07
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As others said, you have a good foundation to work with here. The vocal comment about being disconnected is totally accurate. That can be fixed no matter what you recorded to. I've posted about 30 original songs and a few covers on this forum and have had relative success. I have been dinged heavily a few times but I took it to heart because the people commenting know what they are doing. I think that if you have thin skin this isn't the business for you. AS FAR AS THE VIBRATO, it is good to know how to tame it. It works sometimes and not others. It's about knowing when to hold notes and when not to. How long you hold it when you do, etc. Vibrato is a beautiful thing for a vocalist to have. That goes for everyone. It's best to take the comments and use them or not, but arguing doesn't accomplish anything. You have 14 posts as opposed to the many thousands that a lot of people here have. By virtue of exposure alone, everyone can learn. It's great to have you up here and if you listen to the suggestions (you don't have to do what is suggested), and realize no one is personally attacking you, you will have a lot more fun, and learn a bunch! I've been playing for over 50 years and still learn stuff here. Welcome, and relax, it's all good! Your style is good and your song is good. It's a matter of getting the blend right. We need another good female artist here!!
post edited by evadianepug - 2013/03/22 10:40:32
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Stygian
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/23 12:45:10
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Thanks for all the feedback. I do plan to redo vocals. It would be helpful for me to hear it with less vibrato. If someone is willing to demonstrate this, feel free to do so. I have done some work on the instruments as suggested. Worked on drums in the chorus and layering all instruments for a fuller sound. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and realize all suggestions given are done so in an attempt to help. Thanks again. Stay tuned.
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sharke
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/23 15:37:35
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Are you saying you have trouble singing without vibrato, or turning down the vibrato? I think that's something you need to work on via singing exercises, a singing teacher or even just plain old willpower. Many people have the same problem, and not just singers. Guitarists are notorious for overdoing vibrato, I myself have to really concentrate in order to not overdo it when I'm playing. One of the things I always admired about Frank Zappa's guitar playing was his almost total lack of vibrato, it was all about the notes and the rhythm with him. However, I get where you're coming from vocal wise....it's kind of leading toward an Alanis Morisette style. Actually a study of her vocal technique wouldn't be a bad thing....she uses a lot of vibrato like you, but it's a little slower and more controlled. Yours seems to be somewhere in between hers and Tiny Tim's...lol....no disrespect because Tiny Tim was an awesome vocalist, but his musical style suited that very fast vibrato, whereas I think yours could maybe slow down a little.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Stygian
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Re:My Second Song Attempt: Pyramids
2013/03/23 17:37:06
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I have a problem singing without vibrato. For the most part, it is not something that I am doing intentionally.
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