Gluing techniques?

Ok, I'm feeling pretty good about getting my tracks so they don't step on each other. 
IOW minimal frequency masking, some ducking and aggressive slip editing so no more than a few tracks are playing at any one time means I now hear all tracks distinctly.
I tend not to use reverb and only some subtle delay on the odd track (vox, lead guitar).
The problem is they now sound too distinct. Disconnected in fact. 
Interestingly, it's obvious on my Bose/Harmon Kardon stereo but not so much on my KRK 6's/10"
I need some advice in making them blend again without losing the distinction.
I sure you know what I mean.
I'm assuming it's done in the various busses and master?

X1d Pro Exp

That is a good problem to have.

From your description I'd probably put a reverb on the vox - I usually do.  It fills in the cracks between your sounds but subtlely.  Turn it up until you hear it plainly, then back off.  When the vocals stop and the reverb dies, your music should ring out nicely.  If you have a break for lead guitar, put some similar reverb on it to fill in the cracks and see if that doesn't work.

It is easy to get heavy handed w/ reverb.  Once you learn to control your instints, you can use it as a patina tool.

@

+1 to Bristol_Jonesey.  Mike senior's book is well worth the read in general.
 
I also use the PC4K bus compressor on the master bus, but very subtly.  I adjust the input so that the needle peaks between 2 and 4dB, and then adjust the output so that it's at the same perceived level as the uncompressed signal.  We're not using the compressor to increase the level, it's just a subtle glue.
 
Then a little light EQ on the master bus too.

M_Glenn_M


Ok, I'm feeling pretty good about getting my tracks so they don't step on each other. 
IOW minimal frequency masking, some ducking and aggressive slip editing so no more than a few tracks are playing at any one time means I now hear all tracks distinctly.
I tend not to use reverb and only some subtle delay on the odd track (vox, lead guitar).
The problem is they now sound too distinct. Disconnected in fact. 
Interestingly, it's obvious on my Bose/Harmon Kardon stereo but not so much on my KRK 6's/10"
I need some advice in making them blend again without losing the distinction.
I sure you know what I mean.
I'm assuming it's done in the various busses and master?

X1d Pro Exp

I also think this is a good problem to have. Instead of reverb, I'd suggest impulses. The reason being, they are much more realistic than digital verbs. When things are too distinct, you have one of 2 little bumps in the road.
 
1. Direct recorded instruments: When you don't mic instruments and go direct on several things, you get "direct". A little room ambience can go a long way. The problem is, most people do not know what to do here and abuse it. Small rooms using what we call "transparent" effects will be the key here. "Transparent" means, clean, clear, not artifacts from the effect that degrade the sound. It's lush, realistic, and believable. Jonesey's tips about Mike Senior are good also. Keep it all in mind.
 
2. Panning: The number 1 issue for "disconnection" is excessive pans that are too wide. The wider you make something, the more disconnected it becomes. It will always be a matter of opinion, but wide mixes sound terrible to me. I don't care who mixes them or how many awards they have. Nothing sounds worse than a drum kit that is all over the mix with toms and cymbals that pan onto the guitar tracks that are panned outwards.
 
Set your pans up like you would watch a show. Draw a stage or better yet, search the net for "stage map" and you will find online free programs that allow you to create your stage and place your instruments on that stage. From there, approximate what the pans on those instruments would be by having 100 all the way to the left of the stage, and 100 all the way to right of the stage with 0 in the middle. Now try panning your mix and see how much tighter it sounds.
 
Watch for stereo imagers and effects that have "widening" like Sonitus reverbs etc. Anything over 100 in the width area is beyond the stereo pan field of 100L/R. Too many stereo effects that are not width controlled will disconnect instruments as well depending on how much effect is used. Always control how wide your stereo effects go. By default, they are set to 100L/R. Use a Sonitus Phase to control how wide they spread if need be by just using the width control to tighten things up.
 
Also, a gentle low pass on your entire mix can also sort of "glue" things together and snap out some of the cleanliness that may be making your mix sound a little too pristine in the high end so to speak. Try not to do that unless you have to though. The last thing you want is that great mix you've done to be too dark and sort of lifeless.
 
Personally, though everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I'd stay away from any sort of bus glue or compression on the master bus. The reason being, not many digital plug compressors (in my opinion) do this the right way. Prime example....
 
"Ok, so my question is, I'm using a compressor on my master bus. How do I know when enough is enough Danny?"
 
Answer: Well, you shouldn't really hear it...if you hear it you're using too much. "Yeah, but Danny, why should I use it if I don't really hear it?" Exactly...and now you have your answer. :) Do this with a hardware compressor to where you mix INTO it, and it's an entirely different ballgame. :) You hear "color" as well as actual glue taking place where the entire mix is sort of patched together as an entity. You don't get color out of plug compressors unless you use a UAD Fatso in my opinion. That is the only compressor I mix into. You literally put it on your master bus and THEN mix your song. You don't put it on after.
 
Don't get me wrong, you could use a compressor lightly like the advice you've been given, but to me, that will NOT glue a mix that is "disconnected".
 
Anyway, those are the things I would think about. Try anything and everything if you must...but the above will definitely get you results. :) Good luck!
 
-Danny

This all seems like excellent advice and has given me lots to try.
I have been assuming compression would factor in and have been using it in 4 db increments in a series. (On the original recording, the track before EQ, the buss and the master) this certainly brings up the levels but I wonder if it is actually contributing to the separation?
The extreme panning I am also guilty of and backing off a bit makes good sense in my case.
As said, I have tended to avoid reverb lately due to the tendancy of pushing the sound back where I have worked hard to get an up close and personal sound. (Singer/songwriter style)
But this does make sense too, done subtly of course, and thanks for the suggestions of settings.
Would any of the stock reverbs be good enough or have I arrived at the point where I should consider an outside purchase?

M_Glenn_M


This all seems like excellent advice and has given me lots to try.
I have been assuming compression would factor in and have been using it in 4 db increments in a series. (On the original recording, the track before EQ, the buss and the master) this certainly brings up the levels but I wonder if it is actually contributing to the separation?
The extreme panning I am also guilty of and backing off a bit makes good sense in my case.
As said, I have tended to avoid reverb lately due to the tendancy of pushing the sound back where I have worked hard to get an up close and personal sound. (Singer/songwriter style)
But this does make sense too, done subtly of course, and thanks for the suggestions of settings.
Would any of the stock reverbs be good enough or have I arrived at the point where I should consider an outside purchase?

Compression can factor in nicely when it's used correctly and you use the right compressor on the right instrument. But this depends on what YOUR idea of "disconnection" is compared to mine. Compression tightens things up and makes them more consistent. This is the most common way to use it. Then of course we have compression as an effect especially on drums. For example, I might use a compressor that brings out the crack and resonance of my snare drum. This form of compression will not really keep the snare drum consistent. This will literally give me more crack and sustain. I will then compress with another compressor if needed or even put a light limiter on the snare now so it doesn't go too crazy yet remains dynamic. Or, depending on how the snare sounds, I may leave it alone and just automate the hits so that another compressor is NOT used that could literally interfere with the crack I just created. It depends on the snare and how it's snapping back at me.
 
You mention 4dB in increments. Personally, I don't think you need all those compressors and 4dB in series would make no sense to me unless the instruments called for that type of compression and leveling. You see, you never just put something on compression wise and use a template or a formula. This effect doesn't work like that unfortunately. I'm not saying you're doing that, but if you are, it's not the right way.
 
You mention "this certainly brings up the levels". This is a definite no no. When you use a compressor, one of the things you need to do is toggle it off and on to see if it is raising or lowering the track. You don't want to add volume nor do you want to lose volume. So if you are boosting your levels with the compressor, you need to ask yourself why. This can introduce noise into your mix if you are doing this to make your tracks louder while sort of capping them off to where they are not clipping.
 
Remember, the less you can get away with compression wise, the better off you'll be. I'm not saying don't compress. But there should be a reason to compress things a certain way and each instrument will introduce something that will make the compressor behave differently each time. So no "set way" or template will work. I compress just about everything lightly other than extremely dynamic things that sound bad with compression like toms and cymbals. When you mic a tom just right or use a really good sample, the light compression you use on the drum bus usually takes care of them without going nuts compressing. I use it when I need it.
 
I don't believe compression is contributing to your separation, but if you are guilty of hard pans, the compression level boosting might contribute to certain wide panned instruments sticking out more thus sounding disconnected. Separation comes from panning, effects being wide panned instead of in line with the instruments they are processing or you could even be boosting frequencies within a wide panned mix that make certain things lash out more than they should. This can give you the impression that something is separated when in reality, you may have juiced up an eq a bit too much.
 
Reverb shouldn't push your sound back. If it's doing that, you're using too much pre-delay, or maybe larger rooms or tails and you are not controlling the spread of the verb nor are you eq'ing it properly? Eq on your effects is just as important as eq'ing your tracks.
 
Stay away from halls and long decay times or anything with tails. Watch pre-delay as this will definitely set you back further. When you have the right room sound, it will make all the difference in the world. It literally adds room, not reverb....there is a difference between verb and ambience. What you want is that little bit of ambience that allows you to NOT sound so direct yet we don't want it in big room or school auditorium either.
 
As far as stock verbs and sounds, yeah. Sonitus Verb in Sonar is one of the best and most under-rated verbs out. There's is just about nothing that verb can't do with a little work. Loaded with options, built in filtering, great sound that is very realistic...it's quite a gem that people pass right on by.
 
That said, it's still a reverb. What might be better for you, is something in Perfect Space because it uses impulses which are REAL rooms, not digital, synthetic reverbs. You can also search for free impulses online and find incredible sounds where people went through the pains of heck to create and mic these rooms using great mic's and mic pre's/front end audio stuff. Some of these guys really go all out. And of course, there are impulses you can purchase that are super professional. It's just a bit different than a reverb because it's a recording of the effects of a real room. It responds and reacts like a room would. Reverb is...well, reverb. Sort of fake when you compare it to a killer impulse. Then again, there are reverbs like the UAD EMT 250 that are just in a class by themselves. Or say, some of the Lexicon high end stuff or Eventide. So you will notice some differences with pieces like that.
 
But for smaller room sounds like what you want here, anything "small room" or "ambience" in a program is where I would start. Put it on a bus and insert a send to your track. On the bus where you put the verb or impulse if you use Perfect Space, if the verb/impulse loader you select does not have a spread control, put a Sonitus Phase after it to control the spread. If you are using Sonitus Verb or Perfect space, both have a spread control so you won't need anything additional. If the verb or impulse loader doesn't have a filter with high/low control, put an eq on the bus effects bin or use pro channel and tweak it until it compliments your instruments. 
 
Rule of thumb: When using these effects in on a bus that you are sending to a track, use the effect 100% wet with 0 dry signal and use the effects send slider on the track to control how much effect you want on the track. The reason for this is, if you use "dry" in the effect, it will boost the volume of your track when you turn up the "send" on the track. We don't want a volume push, we want to hear effect. So you may notice that a subtle movement of the send control slider will enable quite a bit of effect that will be heard even in a negative number position. This is ok.
 
On verbs/impulses, watch low end from the verbs/impulses themselves which can make your verb/impulse rumbly and make your tracks muddy...and watch high end from the verb/impulse that can make your tracks appear hissy. You'll know when you find that happy medium. It will make you believe you recorded these instruments with mic's in a room. :) Good luck.
 
-Danny

M_Glenn_M


This all seems like excellent advice and has given me lots to try.
I have been assuming compression would factor in and have been using it in 4 db increments in a series. (On the original recording, the track before EQ, the buss and the master) this certainly brings up the levels but I wonder if it is actually contributing to the separation?
The extreme panning I am also guilty of and backing off a bit makes good sense in my case.
As said, I have tended to avoid reverb lately due to the tendancy of pushing the sound back where I have worked hard to get an up close and personal sound. (Singer/songwriter style)
But this does make sense too, done subtly of course, and thanks for the suggestions of settings.
Would any of the stock reverbs be good enough or have I arrived at the point where I should consider an outside purchase?

If you can find a copy of it anywhere, I find one of the better reverb plugins for use in blending is the Kjaerhus Classic Reverb fits the bill nicely. you have separate control over Early Reflections & Predelay - this is crucial to get disparate tracks blending well together, and it's extremely light on system resources.


I use the Big & Bright preset - but then tweak it severely, as follows:


Size: 1.44
Damping: 10
Predelay: 60ms
Hi Damp: 64
Lo Cut: 200Hz
Early Reflections: -0.4dB
Mix: 100% Eff
Level: 0dB

Kjaerhus Classic Reverb free download.-not yet installed
http://tdcat.com/downloads/details.php?file=26 
Kjaerhus classic effects (suite) free download, not installed
http://www.acoustica.com/plugins/vst-directx.htm

send multiple tracks to the same bus ( bus a, bus b, etc). set your efx within theses busses to 100% wet. use the send for each track to adjust the wetness. Now pan the bus offcenter. example is a subtle delay that occurs offcenter of a vocal or the like. similar to crosstalk or mic bleed....both are associated with glue quality.

I just reread my post and think it wasnt completely clear. I was just trying to explain experimenting with panning buses that contain 100% wet effect. My key point wasnt double tracking, but more having the shared effects panned away from the source tracks for added cohesion and dimension. Like for example hearing vocal reverbs panned left and right while the dry source track sits dead center, etc. If you buses arent set too loud you can subtly fill in some of that mentioned separation.

Separate idea is arrangement - adding in a subtle pad (synth, organs, strings etc) can be a great way to glue your song together.