kev11111111111111
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Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
Hi !
Ive been doing music for a dwarf game,and I realised the last couple of days that mainly people playing the game will be using laptop speakers. So I checked out the freq response for the laptop,and its not good lol.The bottom end is around 220 Hz and the top I cant remember of hand.So basically anything below the a at 220 Hz is not going to be heard is it ? Im finding at the minute if I layer the bass parts an octave higher then they pull through,but all the impact just feels lost when playing through laptop speakers really :(
Any advise ?? Maybe I could boast where the cut of point is in the mix to give it more bottom end ?? Or maybe I should add / layer plenty of instruments at 220 Hz to give it beef ????
Thanks for any ideas
Kev
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/03 16:58:54
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My advice is....do what you do. NEVER take one system into consideration to base your decisions on. There will be others that will be using real pc's and better speakers, some may use ear buds, to conform to one listening environment just doesn't make sense to me. If someone hates the sound of their lap stop speakers enough...they'll use headphones or buy external speakers. They're more into the game than the music...trust me, I'm a gamer. :) The first thing I do is turn off all music and raise the level of the sounds in the game. I don't care how great the music may be....I don't want to hear it as it breaks my concentration. ;)
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/03 19:57:28
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Danny Danzi
My advice is....do what you do. NEVER take one system into consideration to base your decisions on. There will be others that will be using real pc's and better speakers, some may use ear buds, to conform to one listening environment just doesn't make sense to me. If someone hates the sound of their lap stop speakers enough...they'll use headphones or buy external speakers. They're more into the game than the music...trust me, I'm a gamer. :) The first thing I do is turn off all music and raise the level of the sounds in the game. I don't care how great the music may be....I don't want to hear it as it breaks my concentration. ;)
-Danny
Hi ! Yes I agree,you need many systems to get a good reference for the sound. Ive found with this piece Ive been working on,that Ive had to layer more sounds in the lower mid range to compensate for the laptop lack of bass...and actually the result works well on other listening systems too,so it was a win win in this case :) I think the listening environment ,or knowing the where the eventual listening environment will be does influence the arrangement and thus the mix though. Im working on a dwarf project at the moment :) And Ive heard some of the entries for the project.Nearly all of them use low choirs and none of them sound right (to me) because none of these mixes translate well on a laptop.What are prob good arrangements,just end up sounding wimpy and girly because all the meat is placed under the hearing threshold of the laptop speakers.Ok not all gamers are going to use laptops,but there will a lot of people that will.If a mix sounds great on proper speakers and awful on a laptop,then the track wont likely be used.I want it to sound great on both sytems,I guess thats the goal.. Kev
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jacktheexcynic
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/03 21:38:53
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i think there are a couple things to consider here:
1. lower your expectations for laptop speakers. they will not thump.
2. the bassline is actually heard around 400hz, not 100hz.
3. the brain will "hear" frequencies that aren't actually represented.
bring out the characteristics of the instruments, rather than just their "thumpy" frequencies (or whatever it is that you are listening for), by cleaning out the lower end of the spectrum on individual instruments. then listen to the instruments that have more to say in that area come alive, even on earbuds or laptop speakers.
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bitflipper
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/03 22:00:54
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I agree with Danny: don't try to adapt to the laptop speakers. They may be a minority, but at least a few gamers will be listening on full-range speakers. Do it for them, if nothing else.
It won't hurt anything to have content that laptop speakers cannot reproduce. It just won't be there for those users.
I normally don't turn on music for games, so I pulled up the few I had installed (Warcraft, Far Cry, Halo) and gave the music a listen. I was very impressed. Good stuff, and it sounded great on my studio monitors! Obviously, those guys didn't make any concessions based on the presumption that I'd be listening on band-limited speakers (although they were HPF'd around 40Hz or so).
Waves' MaxxBass is a harmonic generator developed specifically for giving the illusion that there's more bass than there really is on small speakers. I have a bookshelf stereo system that has a button labeled "MaxxBass", which does just that. Waves started out licensing the technology to boombox manufacturers, then put it into a VST plugin. Might be worth a look.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/04 05:47:00
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jacktheexcynic
i think there are a couple things to consider here:
1. lower your expectations for laptop speakers. they will not thump.
2. the bassline is actually heard around 400hz, not 100hz.
3. the brain will "hear" frequencies that aren't actually represented.
bring out the characteristics of the instruments, rather than just their "thumpy" frequencies (or whatever it is that you are listening for), by cleaning out the lower end of the spectrum on individual instruments. then listen to the instruments that have more to say in that area come alive, even on earbuds or laptop speakers.
Hi Jack 1 Yep :) 2 I didnt understand this. I know the bass has overtones,but I always thought it was the first three overtones of the bass that were the most important ? 400 hz is just a little higher than middle e on a piano ?? Its not in the bass range anymore?? 3 Ive heard this theory too,that the brian 'fills' in missing harmonic material from the bass. Cant hear it on my laptop though :( lol Defo hear what ure saying about scooping the lows out of instruments that dont need it,I think that would make a big improvement for like you say,the instruments that do need their low end punch. Thanks for you post ! Kev
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/04 06:22:33
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bitflipper
I agree with Danny: don't try to adapt to the laptop speakers. They may be a minority, but at least a few gamers will be listening on full-range speakers. Do it for them, if nothing else.
It won't hurt anything to have content that laptop speakers cannot reproduce. It just won't be there for those users.
I normally don't turn on music for games, so I pulled up the few I had installed (Warcraft, Far Cry, Halo) and gave the music a listen. I was very impressed. Good stuff, and it sounded great on my studio monitors! Obviously, those guys didn't make any concessions based on the presumption that I'd be listening on band-limited speakers (although they were HPF'd around 40Hz or so).
Waves' MaxxBass is a harmonic generator developed specifically for giving the illusion that there's more bass than there really is on small speakers. I have a bookshelf stereo system that has a button labeled "MaxxBass", which does just that. Waves started out licensing the technology to boombox manufacturers, then put it into a VST plugin. Might be worth a look.
Yep writing with just the laptop users in mind isnt something I'd do and yep I hear what both you and danny are saying..the gamers can always upgrade their sound system anyway if they really dont like what they hear. But I still think its a necessary evil (referencing on laptop speakers) knowing that eventually this is what most people will hear when they play the game. How do you make their experience as pleasurable as the people listening on full blown speakers ? Ill check out the MaxxBass,I think this might of been just the tool I was looking for :) Thanks for your post ! Kev
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bitflipper
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/04 10:43:12
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Absolutely, it's essential to use laptop speakers as a reference, as well as some cheap headphones since a lot of gamers prefer headphones. I suspect it comes down to the same principle as with any genre: it's all about the midrange!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/04 13:56:39
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kev11111111111111
bitflipper
I agree with Danny: don't try to adapt to the laptop speakers. They may be a minority, but at least a few gamers will be listening on full-range speakers. Do it for them, if nothing else.
It won't hurt anything to have content that laptop speakers cannot reproduce. It just won't be there for those users.
I normally don't turn on music for games, so I pulled up the few I had installed (Warcraft, Far Cry, Halo) and gave the music a listen. I was very impressed. Good stuff, and it sounded great on my studio monitors! Obviously, those guys didn't make any concessions based on the presumption that I'd be listening on band-limited speakers (although they were HPF'd around 40Hz or so).
Waves' MaxxBass is a harmonic generator developed specifically for giving the illusion that there's more bass than there really is on small speakers. I have a bookshelf stereo system that has a button labeled "MaxxBass", which does just that. Waves started out licensing the technology to boombox manufacturers, then put it into a VST plugin. Might be worth a look.
Yep writing with just the laptop users in mind isnt something I'd do and yep I hear what both you and danny are saying..the gamers can always upgrade their sound system anyway if they really dont like what they hear. But I still think its a necessary evil (referencing on laptop speakers) knowing that eventually this is what most people will hear when they play the game. How do you make their experience as pleasurable as the people listening on full blown speakers ?
Ill check out the MaxxBass,I think this might of been just the tool I was looking for :)
Thanks for your post !
Kev
I understand what you're saying too. I just can't put much stock in laptop speakers, Kev. To be honest, if you look at it realistically, most people know they won't get much fidelity out of laptop speakers....they go into it sort of knowing that. If you put too much stock into how things sound on the laptop speakers, you DEFINITLEY will ruin the experience for those that are not using laptop speakers. I'd rather have my mix sound a bit thin yet audible and consistent on laptop speakers over having the mix sound great on them and horrible on everything else, know what I mean? It's just really not a good way to do things in my opinion and I'd be really surprised if any engineers or mastering guys even referenced laptop speakers to the point of making any decisions based on what they heard there. It just makes no sense to me to degrade your audio for everything else that could be used. But...follow your heart...whatever you feel is best, is what's best. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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jacktheexcynic
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/04 16:33:34
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kev11111111111111
2 I didnt understand this. I know the bass has overtones,but I always thought it was the first three overtones of the bass that were the most important ? 400 hz is just a little higher than middle e on a piano ?? Its not in the bass range anymore??
when we are talking about the frequencies of the instrument, yes, the first three overtones are important. however, the ear picks out the music of the bass (vs. the sound) around 400hz. this goes back to the psychoacoustic effect where the brain fills in frequencies - it has to know something is there before it can fill it in. if the energy of your bass is all below 200-300hz, there's nothing to pick up on. but get some mids on it, and maybe some growl around 1000-1500hz, and it will come to life. you may notice only a slight difference in your monitoring speakers, but those bits will translate to your laptop speakers much better. essentially, your goal is to get the mix to translate on just about anything. you do that by defining the character of each instrument throughout its frequency range. usually, this is best accomplished by getting rid of the parts that you don't need. as you strip away those parts away, the nature of the instrument as you perceive it is more revealed. it also gives the other instruments their own space. right now, i'm thinking of adele's "rolling in the deep". you could take that song from a club to a rusty pickup with both speakers blown and nothing important will change. that is because the musicality of the song, the essence of what it is, comes from everything that's in it. as long as you can hear even part of the frequency spectrum, that will come through. obviously, that has a lot to do with way more than EQ, frequencies and overtones, and that is the point of this mini-rant. 
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spacealf
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/05 17:34:31
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Don't know where you got that. Most PC players or even consoles have cheap but functional enough sub-woofers and speakers. Even my small speakers handle down to 50 Hz on my computer but compared to 8" monitors they are more mid-range in the end and roll off on the top end. Not that you can not hear it though because you can, and my speakers are poor ones to begin with. With consoles going to TV's and HDMI whatever it is connections, computer games put out the music and sound just about the same as a DVD movie anymore. Sure to cut down on loading up sounds and such some are *.mp3 files but even with some games another CD comes with it with the music or sounds a lot of them FX sounds are *.wav files also.
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sharke
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Re:Music for games,phones etc.Frequency range.Layer the bass ??
2013/04/07 11:43:35
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I was quite amazed by Maxxbass to be honest, I haven't really gotten into the ins and outs of it but it does have a "laptop speaker" preset which seems to bring out the bass line on small tinny speakers while not interfering with the sound on regular speakers too much.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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