pops/clicks during multitrack recording/playback using Sonar X2a but not Reaper

I'll also note that I occasionally have this problem even when using some more cpu intensive soft synths (OPX, Omnisphere, etc..). But I also run into the same issue when using the built-in Cakewalk stuff like Dimension Pro

Living Room Rocker


I am just taking a stab, since I didn't read any mention of it, but are your sample/bit rate settings matching between SONAR and your interfaces? Kind regards, Living Room Rocker

Yes - forgot to mention that. Both the interfaces and Sonar are set to 48k.

swamptooth


are you recording while auditioning?  if you are then the cache settings might be your best bet.  in prefs/audio/sync and caching pop your  i/o buffer sizes to 256.  iirc reaper uses higher buffer amounts.  make sure the rec latency adjustment just below those is showing your asio driver.  asio4all is known to hijack this field and not let go so if you have it installed, uninstall it.  under prefs/audio/playback and recording uncheck "always open all devices" and "share drivers with other programs". 


let me know if this works.

Thanks! I'll try to answer in as much detail as possible

record while auditioning... are you referring to me monitoring my drum tracks as I record? I have that turned off in Sonar (I wouldn't mind it on, but I turned it off at one point trying to make this thing work better).

Regarding the i/o buffer sizes - they are already 256. Just to test, I set the playback (record was grayed out) to 384 and restarted. It was still stuttering. 


I have never installed ASIO4All on this box. The onboard sound card has been disabled in the BIOS since before Windows was installed and no drivers were ever put on the machine. 


The ASIO Reported Latency field shows 698 Samples. I tried messing with the offset and setting it between -2 and -10 and it made no difference. 


Both checkboxes you mentioned were already unchecked.

  hmm.. that seems to have improved the situation somewhat, but I just did a simple 16bar recording and it still stuttered a few times. I went back and checked Reaper and the disk buffer was 1200 so I set it to be that in Sonar. I closed/restarted Sonar and my existing tracks still stuttered (albeit in different spots on the track, so I'm pretty sure that the audio files themselves aren't currupted). It's getting a bit late around here for me to keep tracking drums, so I'll probably try and revisit this tomorrow. Thanks again for your help!

Sonar is the only Daw Iv'e learned[and it took a while,and I really only know 20% maybe],but I have come to the conclusion "it" is finicky about computers,their setup,and to me,it's the price we pay for some of the wide ranging abilities the software has.

Although,I often wonder,why so many magazines,product advertisements,always seem to concentrate,on all the "other Daw software" sometimes? Am I missing something?

The trouble is,it's very easy to become defensive about my Sonar,as it took a chunk of my life to learn,and I feel the need to be protective of it too.

I do want to get around to learning Reaper[I have tried TWICE to get Cubase LE running,and couldn't!]but it doesn't seem like it will happen soon[laugh laugh!]

Think of it,that at least your smart enough to use Reaper!
Bob

P.S. Sometimes larger "playback buffer settings" have made things worse,it's definitely a juggling act,ATM my "sync/caching-file system "playback i/o buffer"is 256,but I have gone to 2048 at times,and then settled on 256,after mainly altering the ASIO buffer,depending on track/plug in amount.

I saw a Sound on Sound article from 2009 that talked about there being problems with using 2 of those interfaces together, despite the manufacturer claims that it would work.

Don't know if that is in fact the case or not, but have you tried it with a single one of those?  (just to eliminate that as an issue).

Also, have you tried using one of the older drivers?  Perhaps the 2.4 version - just to see what happens.

Also, perhaps there is a PCI conflict of some sort.  is there another slot you could plug into?  (again just to see what happens).

I wish I had more ideas - I avoid Fire Wire devices like the plague, because USB just seems to work so well for me.  (I am well aware that a whole bunch of folks have zero issues with Fire Wire, but there are also a bunch that do have issues - mainly from chip sets I think).

Anyways - I hope any of the above helps, and in any case I hope that some kind of solution is found for your problems.  Sorry for such a frustrating experience for you.

Bob Bone

swamptooth


i saw this on the focusrite website about using mix control 3.0:

[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"]• No longer requires use of Windows legacy Firewire driver[font="'lucida grande', helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204)"] (Due to this, users who also use the Focusrite Liquid Mix are recommended to ensure that both products are run on separate FireWire buses. If this is not possible then users are recommended to continue using Saffire Mix Control 2.4)

 are you using 3.1?  

Yes, I'm using current. I also at various points of troubleshooting a while back, played with using both the current and legacy firewire driver. Both interfaces are plugged into separate ports on the same card (as recommended). If any of this was an issue though, I would think I would have problems in Reaper as well. Regarding the other suggestion about PCI slots, I've moved things all over, added/removed USB devices, played with the DPC latency checker, disabled about every other thing in the device manager (individually while testing), updated/rolled back various device drivers (DPC latency checker helped me track an issue with my onboard nic driver). I've been chasing this issue since January, so I've pretty much run the gamut. I've been working with PCs professionally since 1998 in the IT industry, and have gone pretty flippin' deep with some of this stuff.


I only got to play with this a little bit tonight (kid duty - so it was limited). Last night when I was fiddling, I never restarted the PC, I just closed/reopened Sonar. Tonight, after a fresh boot, I went in and set my playback buffer to 2048. I closed/reopened and opened up my test project (with about 1 minute of a simple click tracked drum groove). No pops/clicks. I played it back about a 1/2 dozen times and nothing. 

I probably won't get a chance to re-record my drums till the weekend, but I'm really sure that the combination of the few things I've done might have helped. I'll update this thread when I have new information. Thanks guys!

hey jeebus - have you tried these settings in aud.ini

FlushWriteBeforeRead=
<1 or 0>
Boolean
45
The default setting causes SONAR to perform disk reads (for audio playback) before attempting any disk writes (for audio recording). Overriding this value by setting it to 1 causes SONAR to attempt disk writes first. This yields the best results when you are attempting to record a large number of tracks at high latency.
FlushMultiple=<0 or 1>
Boolean
1213
This variable determines how SONAR performs writes to disk in cases where multiple inputs are being recorded simultaneously. The default setting causes SONAR to write all the data for all inputs all at once, and then wait for the entire set of writes to complete. Overriding this value by setting it to 0 causes SONAR to perform each input’s write separately, and wait for each individual write to complete before proceeding to the next one.


RealtimePreroll=<0 or 1>
Boolean
2021
This variable specifies whether preroll buffers are pumped as fast as possible or in real-time.
Prerolling in realtime may improve buffering and CPU load when using hardware DSP solutions such as the Universal Audio UAD-1 or Focusrite Liquid Mix.

Hi - thanks for the idea cswami - Although I don't think this is the issue. It happens whether I am running everything dry or with effects. I'm also running the 32bit version of Sonar now, so Bit Bridge isn't even coming into the equation..


So I have some interesting developments on this front. So my buffer level "fix" did not really pan out after some extensive testing. So I spent a lot of yesterday diving into the system. I busted out LatencyMon (thanks KevinD) to take a look at my system drivers. Previously I'd only used DPC Latency Checker, which doesn't provide much detail. That sent me down the road of playing with my graphics card drivers (I have dual Nvidia cards - 500GTX and a 620 that are driving 3 monitors). LatencyMon found huge issues with the drivers. After some research, I found I wasn't the only one with that problem (like you Kevin). I went through a couple revisions and ended up loading the default Win7 VGA drivers to eliminate the driver. I was still having pops/dropouts. 

So after a preemptive trip to MicroCenter this morning with a new ATI video card, I started testing again. Most of my high DPC hangs were with usbport.sys, wdf01000.sys, and the built-in atapi driver. So I removed all USB devices (short of a keyboard,mouse) and unplugged my internal BluRay drive. Still having problems (and LatencyMon telling me that I am). So I went into the BIOS, updated to latest version, turned off ALL power management and CPU scaling functionality, booted back into windows and made sure that all of my Windows Power items were set to maximum, disabled the power down checkbox in device manager for each of my USB root hubs. STILL having dropouts in Sonar. For giggles, I fired up reaper and played my multitrack test project (15 audio tracks, just like Sonar of me playing a simple groove with no effects). LatencyMon kept barking to me about problems with drivers/power management, etc, but it sounded absolutely fine. 

So I was back to playing with Sonar. I happened to run across this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1427501

I did a bit more reading about MMCSS and on a whim, disabled it. I restarted my test project (after a reboot) and ran LatencyMon. It still barked at me about my drivers, BUT playback was flawless. So I cued up a new project and recorded 48 bars of drums to a click track. Playback again was flawless, even though LatencyMon was complaining about my drivers. 

Now this DAW system is only used for this purpose. I don't surf the internet, check Facebook, or watch movies (those are what my linux boxes are for). It's sole purpose in life is to run Sonar. If I didn't run Sonar, I would still be running Reaper in Linux, as I do on my laptop. Regardless of what LatencyMon tells me, as long as my audio doesn't pop/skip, I'm OK with things. From what I read about MMCSS, it's mainly for interacting with other audio systems to ensure thread priority. If I leave this off, do I run the risk of having problems when using a few soft synths within the confines of Sonar (Omnisphere, OPX, etc...)? 


Swamptooth - I haven't messed with my aud.ini file, but if that is something that you guys think is worth exploring, I will. However, if disabling mmcss isn't super harmful and it fixes my issue (only time will tell), I'm happy with that.