Glyn John Mic Test

Well, the entire industry is hybridding, so use that method if/when you have to. The toughest thing about talking people into using V-Drums is the feel and it depends what pads you have. The mesh heads are a little easier to swallow for drummers. But, nothing beats a goodl old fashioned kit to some guys. Me, I could care less really. I enjoy the V-Drums and think they feel great. I don't use the sounds in the brain at all, it's just my pad to midi interface really.

Here's a few things to keep in mind Paul...

If you are going to use these drums for blues, jazz and older country, that kit will work just as it is. See man, drum kits for those styles of music don't usually get processed to the point of where the room within the drums is controlled. Then again, in the case of SRV....his later stuff had some killer modern drum sounds that did NOT sound like that loose "drums in a room" sound. So for some things, you can get away with that kit just the way it is.

For pop, modern rock,metal, current modern country, some of the more fusion type things, this kit will not cut it without some processing or at least a different snare drum with processing. That distant type sound is what makes it lack. If you listen to any pro kit...heck go back to like the Doobie Bros if you want...you'll notice the kit is processed in a way to where it doesn't sound like a drum set in a room. They all have this pro *tight* sound, if you will...even the more classic rock kits. As much as I'm no longer down with the classic rock type sound, they have this thing that doesn't sound like that "cheap drums in a room" deal unless we go back into the 60's and listen to some of those kits.

So before you get too hard on yourself with this stuff, take a look at what type of kit you are trying to get. I think you got a good 60's type kit with the drums the way they are. With a little tightening and more mic's, you have the 70's nailed. You wouldn't want the 80's as that era (as much as it pains me since that was my favorite time...but for guitar sounds only lol) used too many unrealistic samples with loads of verb.

I think the late 90's to today are the best drum sounds for all styles of music to be honest. They just got it right in my opinion. Sure some of this is due to samples being used at the same time or whatever...but to me it's still a great drum sound and to me it doesn't matter how you get there...as long as you get there.

If you've ever heard the first Stone Temple Pilots album....great drum sound there. Living Color's first album...anything by Rush from Moving Pictures on....just about anything with Mike Portnoy former drummer of Dream Theater. The new Maragold album has a really nice, tight drum sound as well with one of the best female singers of all time...whew...if this chic isn't a legend in a few years, I give up! Check this out..

http://www.youtube.com/user/maragoldband?feature=watch

Best female voice alive right now in rock..so much so, I proposed to her. LOL! Told her if I can do a cover of this song (which I did lol I just haven't shared it with her yet) and impress her, she has to marry me. Hahaha! I did some work with the guitar player Greg Howe so I had the connection to talk to her. :)

Anyway...sorry, Meghan just blows my doors off and I get all exicted. LOL! But the drums in that are nice and tight and along the lines of the kits I mic up here and what others are using today. I'm also really liking some of the modern country stuff which of course is pretty much melodic rock these days with nice fat processed drum kits. So it depends what type of sound you are going for brother. There are definite uses for that kit just as it is and you're getting a sound that is nothing to be embarrassed about for sure. With a little more work you'll get it even tighter. At least the drums themselves have a pretty good sound. The cymbals...yeah, a bit weak there but hey, at least you have a drum kit and the cymbals don't sound too bad. You just low pass them to keep them from being harsh and then sculpt up the middle to add or take away the mids if you see fit. High pass them nice and tight and you'll make them work.

That's another cool thing Paul...and that is, this kit is making you work and experiment. That to me is the best way to learn this stuff. You can go to a school and use their gear and their mics...it means nothing when you are in the field with your own stuff or someone elses. You will learn so much this way...when you get a new kit or whatever some day, you'll laugh when you see how easy it is to get a good sound out of it. But...what you're doing now will pave the way to what you do then.

I have a set of hihats here that sound like absolute dog crap. Some dude gave them to me. I took them rather than throwing them out as you never know when you may need something in this business. Well, they sounded so bad, I was going to throw them out. But one day I needed them for something....and the unexplainable happened. I don't know how or why or what the deal is, but these freakin' things come to life when you mic them. As God is my witness Paull, they barely even sound like hats when you listen to them in real life. But mic'd up...they literally sound like a high end hat. I started using them just to see how I'd do with them. I can't tell you how many compliments I got on the hats. Most people say "ah, sounds like a hat" where others really listen and comment. When you mic something right, eq it right and do all the right things...you can just about make anything sound acceptable really. The problem with this method is you often times spend too much time making something sound good where if you had a good piece of gear, it doesn't take that amount of time.

Anyway...keep at it...it's definitely an acceptable drum sound in my opinion, the genres is which you use the drums on may be the only issue. :)

-Danny

A while back a friend of mine pulled a metal snare drum with no brand name out of a garbage can on the street.  He brought it to me and asked if it was any good.  I put new heads on it and I was amazed at the sound.  It was fantastic.  It had this sharp crack, full tone and just a hint of ring.  It could cut through the mix like a hot knife through butter.  For quite some time, it was my favorite snare drum.

You just never know until you try.

Don't swap right away Paul, try to get the acoustic to sound the way you want it first :)

alexoosthoek


Don't swap right away Paul, try to get the acoustic to sound the way you want it first :)

+1
 
Thing is if you are using Glyn Johns or a stereo OH configuration get the kit sounding nice and balanced in that main pair before you do anything else!  If you can't get the space sounding too great then make sure you are using cardoid pattern mics and move in closer if need be but keep that all-round balance right.
 
Don't add further mics until you can get it right at that stage, then your close mics are giving you further options, if you haven't got that basic sound right in the first place close mics are just adding confusion and you wont get repeatable results.
 
This sounds much better than anything that I've heard off that kit so far, so you are on the right lines.  I'd say you've got far too much hat in relation to everything else so some movement of the snare mic further from the hat or work a bit more on the balance from the main overheads.  Do you see the point I'm making from that?  I can't tell whether the hi-hat overdose is coming from the OH's or the close mic on the snare already.
 
Keep trying with that OH pair placement until everything sounds balanced and nothing is too dominant.  Close micing is a cinch from that point onwards.
 
There's some not nice resonance going on there too I'm not sure if it's the kick itself causing it or whether it's causing some sympathetic resonance off the other drums, whatever it's something to listen for when you are tuning up, sometimes nastiness can't be avoided and you have to get a little judicious in the use of some gaffer tape, not for all out damping but just to kill of a little of the tonal resonances that might clash with the music.
 
But yes just like you have observed this IS actually getting somewhere.

Jonbouy

alexoosthoek


Don't swap right away Paul, try to get the acoustic to sound the way you want it first :)

+1
 
Thing is if you are using Glyn Johns or a stereo OH configuration get the kit sounding nice and balanced in that main pair before you do anything else!  If you can't get the space sounding too great then make sure you are using cardoid pattern mics and move in closer if need be but keep that all-round balance right.
 
Don't add further mics until you can get it right at that stage, then your close mics are giving you further options, if you haven't got that basic sound right in the first place close mics are just adding confusion and you wont get repeatable results.
 
This sounds much better than anything that I've heard off that kit so far, so you are on the right lines.  I'd say you've got far too much hat in relation to everything else so some movement of the snare mic further from the hat or work a bit more on the balance from the main overheads.  Do you see the point I'm making from that?  I can't tell whether the hi-hat overdose is coming from the OH's or the close mic on the snare already.
 
Keep trying with that OH pair placement until everything sounds balanced and nothing is too dominant.  Close micing is a cinch from that point onwards.
 
There's some not nice resonance going on there too I'm not sure if it's the kick itself causing it or whether it's causing some sympathetic resonance off the other drums, whatever it's something to listen for when you are tuning up, sometimes nastiness can't be avoided and you have to get a little judicious in the use of some gaffer tape, not for all out damping but just to kill of a little of the tonal resonances that might clash with the music.
 
But yes just like you have observed this IS actually getting somewhere.

+1 to the above. I just want to add one more thing to this, Paul. Everything Jon is telling you here sounds perfect to me. Even down to the artifacts he's mentioning. However, you don't really know for sure until you mix this kit in with a song.
 
One of the main things in recording that I have learned is, nothing is as it seems when solo'd up. You can have the greatest sound known to man. That doesn't promise you it will work good in a mix with other instruments. Sometimes instruments actually sound sort of bad when by themselves but low and behold, something magical happens when you mix the stuff together.
 
I can give several instances of this. One being Bohemian Rhapsody. Forgive me for not bowing down to that piece of history other than when the hair on my arms stands up when I solo Freddie's tracks. These instruments by themselves do not sound very good at all. As a matter of fact, I would be ashamed of myself for pumping out sounds like this. May's guitar intonation is either off or there was some bad fretting going on...the drums didn't impress me, the bass was so so.....HOWEVER...... 
 
Put that stuff in a mix, tighten up the eq and get the right recipe and it's easy to see/hear how it made history. My point isn't to bash on the performances or the actual prints. My point is, "nothing is as it seems" until you mix it in with other instruments.
 
So though Jon, me or anyone else can tell you what we may change in this kit while hearing it solo'd up, if you mix it with a song and adjust the kit to fit the mix, we may not comment in the same way. From here, that's what you should do next man. Record the kit using your present techniques into a song. Do something short about 30 seconds to a minute and let's hear how these get along with others. :)
 
-Danny

Hahaha yeah, that sounds like a plan Paul. At least we'll be able to see what these bad boys can do. :) Try to mix the drums in as good as you can when you do the actual mix...this way you really hear if things work. :) Looking forward to hearing this.

-Danny