panning stereo acoustic guitar

Author
Jean
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 61
  • Joined: 2004/10/05 07:49:08
  • Status: offline
2013/05/08 19:00:29 (permalink)

panning stereo acoustic guitar

Picture the scene ...
 
I've recorded an acoustic guitar in (pseudo) stereo. Two cardiods spaced, one around the twelfth fret (right), one to the side of the sound hole (left). The levels of the tracks are fairly equal. So I have two mono tracks. I pan one track fully left and one track fully right. I then set up a stereo buss for the two mono guitar tracks.
 
My question is:
 
If I want to narrow the stereo width of the guitar and put that narrower guitar so that it sounds more to the left of the stereo field, do I?
 
a. pan the left mono track say 80% left and the right mono track say 20% right and leave the stereo buss panned to centre? or ...
 
b. pan the left mono track say 50% left and the right mono track say 50% right and then pan the stereo buss say 50% left? or ...
 
c. pan the left mono track say 50% left and the right mono track say 50% right and increase the volume of the left mono track ?
Thanks
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 19:34:52 (permalink)
    Which one sounds the best when you listen to it?

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    Jean
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 61
    • Joined: 2004/10/05 07:49:08
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 19:42:21 (permalink)
    Hi gswitz
    They all sound ok, but I was wondering if there was a specific (theoretically correct) way to do it.
    #3
    gcolbert
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1176
    • Joined: 2010/11/13 18:34:06
    • Location: Windsor Mill, MD
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 20:08:30 (permalink)
    You may find that you get a better range of answers if you were to post this in the 'techniques' forum.  The entire issue of stereo immaging and sound placement has some rather interesting posts there.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2820205
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2794306
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2761212
    #4
    mixsit
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 789
    • Joined: 2004/04/30 11:04:24
    • Location: CathouseSound
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 20:15:26 (permalink)
    I generally don't think to pan at the bus and left centered it just reflects the track pans, but heck try it both ways. Also - there is the Hass pan effect -if one mic is slightly closer (an inch might do it), it would tend to pull it's image towards it.

    Wayne Smith
    Part time long time..
    CathouseSound 
    Mother Ships  - StudioCat DAWs   
    Portals - RME
    #5
    Dude Ivey
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 280
    • Joined: 2012/12/25 01:28:32
    • Location: Athens, Texas
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 20:29:01 (permalink)
    If it were me, i would go with the first choice.

    X-3e/X-2a, Windows 7 64bit, Intel i7-2600, 16Gb ram, 4 Tb HDD, 32 inch monitor, RME FireFace UFX, Shure SRH1840 Headphones, KRK Rockit 5 monitors w/ KRK 10 inch sub and 3 Dachshunds.
    #6
    timidi
    Max Output Level: -21 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5449
    • Joined: 2006/04/11 12:55:15
    • Location: SE Florida
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 21:03:52 (permalink)
    It's not scientific. It's what sounds best.

    ASUS P8P67, i7-2600K, CORSAIR 16GB, HIS 5450, 3 Samsung SSD 850, Win7 64, RME AIO.
     
    https://timbowman.bandcamp.com/releases
     
    #7
    konradh
    Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3325
    • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/08 22:54:34 (permalink)
    Were I to have things set up that way, I would get the guitar where it sounded perfectly balanced, and then I wold pan the bus as desired. Otherwise, you will have too many confusion factors if, during mix, you want to shift the position of the guitar.

    I am guessing that you do not hear a very strong stereo image with this mic set-up, correct? I am not saying that is bad in any way at all--just that I would imagine that the stereo effect is subtle.

    Do you ever use an XY mic set-up?

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #8
    keyzs
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 121
    • Joined: 2013/04/10 00:03:34
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/09 00:36:34 (permalink)
    Hi, sounds like you are trying to position the image of the guitar track to sit well within your mix. hope i get the idea correct first...

    if you want to do this it may be better sum both mono tracks to a single mono track. the reason for this is 
    1.     12th fret mic - is used to record the slips and slide of the fingers and strings. it will still pick up a little from the guitar sound hole.
    2.     sound hole mic - is used to record the plucking and acoustics directly from the guitar body. it will also pick up a little of the slips and slides from above.


    by panning, you will get two different sounds on the left and right.


    so if you sum to a single mono track, you will have exactly the same sound on both sides. with that, you may then experiment with the sitting of the track with whatever tools you may be comfortable with. they could be simple pan all the way up to phasing. 


    you could think of this as similar to using 2 mics on a single guitar amp.


    hope this helps...
    #9
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/09 04:09:50 (permalink)
    Another option (and one I use all the time on stereo tracks)

    Pan your mono tracks to 100% L + 100% R
    Insert the Channel Tools plugin on your stereo bus.
    Adjust to taste

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #10
    Jeff Evans
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5139
    • Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
    • Location: Ballarat, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/09 04:15:31 (permalink)
    When the mics are spaced the stereo image is usually stronger. (Although it does depend on how far apart they are) But they may not collapse into mono very well. There could be some comb filtering and the guitar sound may not sound that great in mono.

    XY or MS where the mic diaphragms are in the same spot will still create a reasonable stereo image but will not have any problems if collapsed into mono.

    I have found that stereo acoustic guitar sounds are over rated and in the end you don't need it so much. By the time other stuff comes into the picture you wont hear it that much anyway. You never listen to an acoustic guitar 6 inches from the strings do you so creating stereo images is not that important. You tend to hear it further away and then it becomes mono anyway. Once other elements are in as well you find that the stereo image is more hassle than its worth. And the OP is already talking about narrowing the image anyway.

    A much better effect is to get the acoustic guitarist to play the same (rhythm) part twice and just pan those parts hard left and hard right. And if they are good they will get the timing very spot on and it won't sound like two guitar parts but more rather like one.

    One decent mic a little out from the 12th fret usually does the trick and is hard to beat. What is WAY more important is a decent guitar and player.


    Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
     
    Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
    #11
    Jean
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 61
    • Joined: 2004/10/05 07:49:08
    • Status: offline
    Re:panning stereo acoustic guitar 2013/05/09 05:55:11 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone for your replies. So far it was just a recording rehearsal and I was interested in trying different methods. (Will probably end up with XY technique though and make sure I also do a mono guitar recording at the same time to be on the safe side!)

    It's a sparse folk  arrangement, close up intimate.  (one vocal (quite low male voice)), one guitar (finger picking/not strumming) (guitarist is not the singer) and violin. My plan is vocal centre, violin off to the right a bit and guitar over to the left a bit. I thought I should try some stereo guitar to help the guitar 'bloom' but still keep it authentic and not unnaturally wide (so the guitar isn't wider than the singer and violinist)


    Would another option be to use eq and take some top off the left guitar (low pass) and eq the bottom off the right guitar (high pass) and pan the two mono tracks say left mono 70-80% left and right mono 0-10% right as if the guitar takes up most of the left soundstage? Therefore, the higher frequencies of the guitar are around the centred low male voice for more separation.


    (I know that it's best just to listen! ... but I've been looking around the internet to see different acoustic guitar stereo recording techniques, but can't find much on how they are mixed thereafter) and would like to know how others in the forum go about this kind of thing. And ... I know ...  I'm wayyyyy over- thinking it.


    @ gcolbert ... yes, sorry ... this should probably be in another forum.

    #12
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1