Drawing vs. Painting

I've perceived that some artists sing better with minimal accompaniment 
... while others sing better only with instrumental 'collaborations'.
IOWs, I know I can PAINT a portrait exceedingly well, but I never can DRAW a portrait of any beauty.   OTOH, Other portrait artists can't paint ... but their charcoal drawings are to-die-for.


The same with singing; I sing exceedingly well with rich instruments ... but when it comes to singing acapella or without accompaniment ... its pretty ugly, IMHO.


Also, while my sketches truly suck ... my polished productions are oft mind-blowing (IMHO, JMO).  Once the big picture starts to form, then and only then does my creative inspiration manifest any beauty.


Any of you have similar ponderings ... or vice-versa?  Thanks in advance for your relevant (and/or irrelevant thoughts)!

I'm not good at painting or drawing either one.  But there is no difference in my singing regarding the accompaniment (as long as it's not off pitch).

 ...its pretty ugly...


Just noticed this very common but direct contrast!


I'm so very used to sitting at the piano & singing after years & years of Piano Lounge gigs 6 nights a week, that that's what works best for me.


I know it's often recommended to be standing straight & upright by some for proper diaphragm control & best results, but I think it's what ever you get used to & comfortable with more than anything else. 


I also do better by having the piano notes to go by vs. just acapella.

I think that what you are experiencing is a common misconception. 

After all, it's the same voice from the same person.... kill the backing musical accompaniment  in either a musical sketch or a musical painting and you have the same voice. 

In the painting situation, you have more instrumentation to hide, and cover for the voice. Hence, it tends to sound better because it's got other things running interference for it.... providing cover. 

In the sketch..... piano or guitar with a vocal track..... there is no place to hide. But essentially it is the same vocal that was in the other performance. 

So.... since the sketch situation seems to be the harder of the 2, I would suggest doing more of it. Only by working in that medium can you find and solve the issues that are bothering you. Once you get into the "zen" of the sketch project, you will find that place where it works. 

You have to think of your voice as an instrument rather than just "singing the parts" of the song.  Why do you choose a piano or a guitar? Answer: because it sounds like if fits the part in the song and supports it's weight. Same is true of the voice. 

The voice is not an "also ran" it is one of the premier stars of the show, if not THE most important one. Approach it mentally from that POV. Attitude changes everything. ( Listen to some Tom Waits) 

Firstly Philip, there is singing and then there is singing.  Someone who is "trained" will undoubtly sound great whether they are in a drawing or a painting.  Then there are the rest of us, me included who are not always on the money but when you layer the vocal within the painting it sounds heavenly.  This is because you are reinforcing the sonics or the pure note.  I hope that makes sense.  

Peace Ben  

Gotta love this Philip guy, eh? He sure does make you think when he posts. :)
 

Philip
So every talent here has diverse gifts that would probably violate my perceptions ... perhaps depending of genres and such.

 
I think you summed it up right there as well as what Ben offered here:
 
"there is singing and then there is singing. Someone who is "trained" will undoubtly sound great whether they are in a drawing or a painting. Then there are the rest of us, me included who are not always on the money but when you layer the vocal within the painting it sounds heavenly. This is because you are reinforcing the sonics or the pure note."
 
Those two things in my opinion, totally dictate the outcome. Let's take singers like you and I. We have a good pitch perception, we can phrase, we have decent timbres, but us vs. say Dann Huff, Tim McGraw, Mariah Carey, early Whitney Houston, Luther V etc....they're going to cook us voice for voice because they are just more "singer" than we are. We need backing music because we don't quite have the ability to really vocally shine like them.
 
Look at Bob Dylan or even Tom Petty. I bet they fail too if they sing alone or when "drawing" as opposed to their final "painting". Yet, there we have two of the most talented and reputable artists alive. Do I think they sing great? Not at all, but like The Beatles, when you put them all together and allowed them to let go in a "painting" situation, magical things happened.
 
Then of course there is the other factor. Sometimes "unique" when used as a genuine word instead of when "unique" gets used TODAY as a misrepresentation to the word "great", we don't need a fantastric voice. We can sit here and name several vocalists that weren't fantastic singers yet had that special something that didn't matter whether they had music backing them or not.
 
I'm not a fan of John Lennon's voice. I loved his writing and how his end result would be great...but his voice never impressed me as "wow". However, he could just sing something alone or play an acoustic guitar....and the man had that certain something that just made you appreciate him....flaws and all. I never liked Stevie Nicks due to her "billy goat" vibrato. However, no one could replace her in that band because of her vocal timbre and delivery.
 
So in a nut-shell, I think it all depends on the person as well as the song really. Just because some of us may have to illustrate within a drawing or even make the drawing a full painting doesn't mean the drawing part is bad. We have to start somewhere, ya know? We can't just build a house. We need the ugly beginning. The footing, the framing and all the stuff that no one will see once the house is built. The most incredible mansion in the world was a drawing that had early "ugliness". Yet, it turned into something beautiful.
 
An ugly ducking that turns into a Swan...the list goes on and on. Now, the fix for this stuff...
 
If you are unhappy with your drawings, you must ask yourself why. One of the things with your voice that you may want to look into would be vocal inflections. When you sing, you sing very straight forward. Your annunciation is perfect, you try to nail every phrase and always try for perfect timing etc. These my friend...can make things sound too polished. When singers don't annunciate so precise like a grammer school teacher would, it gives the vocals soul. I'm not saying don't annunciate to the point where people don't understand what you are singing...but there is a certain "dirt under the nails" in a sense that I think is really important.
 
Vibrato is important. That is like the finger print of a guitarist. Once he can control vibrato correctly in his execution when playing guitar, this is what makes that guitar player have an identity. I say this because it's the same with vocalists. I mentioned Stevie Nicks...though I hate her vibrato....that's her sound...her signature. You can tell it's her singing in seconds. Identity is important. Several attempt it purposely while missing the obvious while few achieve it done in that manner.
 
Maybe some vocal lessons would help you to appreciate your own voice. At least you sing in key bro...that's 90% of the battle if you ask me. I always examine myself musically to see what I can improve on. To me, I'm often times way too hard on myself to the point of making myself miserable. If anyone ever knew how much I put on myself, they would never believe it. I'm beyond brutal.
 
But that said, good can come out of it. Because I was unhappy with my drawings and not liking my voice from an acapella stand-point, I attempted to fix it. I've been a smoker for 34 years and just up and quit cold turkey on March 12. The change in my vocal is astonishing. My range has improved, my control is 100% better (though it was hard as heck to control for the first month...you have no idea!) and my vocal quality, consistency and endurance has improved ten-fold.
 
It's also helped me to sound a bit better by myself. I can now pick up an acoustic guitar and sing to where I sound like a singer where as before, not so much IMO. I'm still not good enough to compete with Mariah Carey in an acapella situation nor do I think I'm ready to just start singing without music, but I have definitely improved one of the things in my "drawings" that makes them more acceptable.
 
So question why your drawings may sound the way they do. Maybe there's room for improvment on your voice, playing of other instruments....the list goes on and on. But only you can determine which things to work on and which to leave alone. To be honest, I'm perfectly happy with illustrating my picture. I'm not one that really likes drawings or nakedness/super raw ideas anyway. I like to hear them polished and presented in their final state.
 
That said...if the drawing is really bad, the painting probably will not be much better. There has to be a certain amount of skill in the drawing. If we were having a house built and had two architects drawing up plans for us, and one presented a drawing that looked like a 5th grader using stick figures etc and the other guy presented plans he drew up in Autocad, which guy do you go with?
 
So to an extent, sure a drawing should have some good qualities within it that shouldn't make you cringe. But as long as the idea is there and you are still delivering the goods, it's not something I would worry too much about other than if you feel the need to hone your skills a bit more. That's the good thing about a drawing....you can't run and you can't hide...it shows you for who and what you are. Sometimes...this can be great! Other times...it can be very unforgiving yet it can show you where you may need work. Anyway, I hope some of this helps. :)
 
-Danny

Mike: I'm not a member of that site (yet).  However, the "column of air thing" has always been a MAJOR thing for classical (not hip-hop) singing.  "Singing" is as diverse as personality.

That said, I am extreme aware of the diaphragm and facial mask during performance gigs and warm ups ... and delivering the goods.

Dylan was a great hypnotic "drawer" a minimalist ... worthy of an intellectual following.  However, his paintings are ugly (to me).  He draws exquisitely and seems close to his Maker.  His niche is DRAWING ONLY. 

Danny: Well spoken.  This thread is prompted by our latest collab: Raised-2.  Well I changed the name to Raised-3 ... because it grew from a solid song-child into something SO magically wonderful, in that ... it blows away the doors of Heaven itself.  Not like Dylan's lonesome antics "Knock knock knock on Heaven's door" ... which is a 'great drawing' only, IMHO.  :):):)

... After your and my 'struggles' with Raised-2/3' ... God somehow blessed it above every song (to my ears).  It is a multi-layered painting with fresh uncanny performances that burst out of a layered painting ... 

TBH, I'm forced to put more credence in "the gift one is born with" ... and/or the 'God-Did-It' mindset ... when it comes to losing oneself and finding oneself re-born in a drawing or painting.


Training for Pop has its necessary place, no doubt ... which is why many ARTISTS draw to you, Danny, (and not local talent) for raising the bar ... as a song grows Heavenward.  

Often its the local instructor that means well but really needs the help more. :):):)

JMO/IMHO only:

But a MUCH higher power, the SONG ... the SONG with all its oceans of emotional and technical weaving ... dictates the drawing vs painting ... and/or the artist ... again, JMO/IMHO.

Someone said "the song dictates chooses the writer" ... but I''d prefer to say,
"the song chooses the singer"

This is a great thread & a damn good metaphor that certainly insights thought.  
   
    I think it has to do with experience and what the singer is most comfortable doing.  For instance, My sister-in-law writes songs and can sing with perfect pitch and sound incredible completely accapella.  She does not play any instrument at all but is a prolific song writer.  The songs have apparent verses, choruses, etc.  Example: 
https://soundcloud.com/st...dios/holding-on-to-you

   She wrote this song for my brother & originally recorded an accapella video of her singing it and put it on youtube so he could hear it while he was in Army Airborne school.  I brought her in the studio for this & had her sing it to a click (which she really didn't need) and then I put a simple rhythm guitar track under it.   She sounds incredible on her own, & I have done some of her stuff with full accompaniment though in doing so, what I found was this...  She has never sang with a band,  so she lacks any real sense of dynamics.  When the band gets big in a chorus, she suddenly starts to sound weak by comparison at times.    She is great at "drawing" but lacks the experience to "paint".

   Adversely, as stated above, a person could have minor pitch issues or moderate timbre deficiencies that could get masked in a painting and still sound great while sounding horrible in a drawing.

  As I sit and pondered this thread I couldn't help but draw parallels to my guitar playing too...  I started playing at 12 1/2 yrs old and was in my 1st band by my 13th birthday. I have always played rock/punk/alternative/ska etc & played with a whole band.  When I write a simple rhythm guitar part I hear how the second guitar, bass, drums, & vocals should interact, bounce off of & key off of that part.  I think I can paint pretty well.  Example: this is all me -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcAvOYEFgrA

   But, sitting around a campfire with acoustics and no band, my brother who has been playing (acoustic guitar only) for about 3 years who does more intricate pick work, finger picking etc. makes me appear to be a hack.  LOL    My "drawings" on guitar appear very basic at 1st glance.  Until I get a chance to cover the rest of the canvas with the rest of my vision, my work would go largely unappreciated at any level when it comes to guitar work.   When it comes to vocals, it's a different story and I believe I can pull off both with equal proficiency. 

Glad I could help you out & "validate" the issue/theory for you.  I think it was a valid thought to start with and a good way to explain the phenomenon.