The undervaluing of musicians - Free festival anyone !

This one beggars belief. I walked into one of my local pubs earlier tonight, very picturesque views over countryside, on a canalside location, with a huge garden. Despite this idyllic setting, business in the bar and restaurant has not been as good as other years due to both the economic downturn here in the UK and also the poor weather so far this spring / summer.

So I notice a big sign up on the noticeboard. 'Singers, musicians, inc duos and bands, leave your details behind the bar for performance slot at a weekend music festival in the gardens here at the end of June. Great I thought, I know the landlord (currently away on holiday and leaving his manager in charge) and am currently rehearsing a few numbers with my girl singer for a comeback to live performance. 

So when I talk to the manager, and ask her how the fees are going to work with such a possible large number of acts over a weekend, she informs me that each performer will get a free meal and a couple of free drinks. When I point out that the cost to the pub is barely going to be a tenner each performer, yet is likely to fill the pub and grounds and, no doubt, the landlords coffers over an entire weekend, she genuinely thought I was being a mischief maker and couldn't see the glaring and obvious naivety and greed in the arrangements at the expense of the artist. I pointed out that, at the very least, there ought to be an association to a charitable event, with collections raised for a good and needy cause, and that possibly only then, could the efforts of individual artists potentially be justified by the altruistic act of performing for charity, and not simply lining the pocket of the landlord at their expense.  

Still the penny didn't drop. It never ceases to amaze me how people never question the need to pay top dollar for any other trade or service that requires training and skill, and yet still undermines musicians in this way. I immediately pulled out my support, and I really hope other local artists do the same. There is a lot more I could say but I have still come home fuming from this one, and just wanted to vent my spleen here on the forum.

Skills and talent are effectively being rendered worthless. There's no discerning audience outside of a minority. People won't pay for something when they can't hear the difference between that and junk.

It is one of those things we often talk w/ my wife, one of our big pet peeves. It hits her particularly hard because a lot of people assume she is lip synching (when it's quite obvious that it's all live), don't recognize that it's her voice throughout all the acts, etc.

The crowd isn't equipped to even make the difference. 

Everybody in Dallas sez there are plenty of places to play - as long as you don't want to get paid.  True everywhere, I guess.

@

That letter is spot on.

I've never been behind the bar, only behind the board or up on stage, yet I've always known that what that letter states is 100% spot on.

I've made a lot of bar tenders a lot of money. My first stage experiences were as a child with a "house" band that knew all about this stuff. I guess that's why I don't find the club owners perspective offensive.


I don't disagree with Gary the OP either.

I think it's simple. I always tell the up and coming bands that complain about money "if you choose to play some music that people like then the club owners will want to pay you to play their place... that's how it works".


best regards,
mike

Seems like this IS happening everywhere. 

There's a very small number of people who actually know what real talent is and even less that can spot it when they see and/or hear it.

Unfortunately, the number of people who actually care about any talent whatsoever, is even smaller. 

Most now mistake popularity for talent.

If they like it, then they think it's good, [even though it doesn't actually have to be] - and they'll almost always insist that that person or band is 'very talented'.

And yet the majority of 'todays big name acts' have little to no talent at all, but have instead been groomed to be marketable, like robots & puppies.

And yet the rest of us sit at home, refusing to 'play for beer' after entering the business some 25-30 years ago. 

I had one lady offer to pass around a hat for me! This was after I had been hired at what I understood to be a paying gig at my asking rate!

I like what Shaggy said: "If it were up to talent, real actual talent, most of us wouldn't be here. 

I also like that he included himself in that fray.

From the infamous pub owner's letter:

"You might be surprised at how much competition you have. I get emails, voicemails, regular mail, fed-ex packages left for me, all with earnestly concocted press kits and demos and I ignore almost all of it."


Music is an extraordinarily attractive avocation, quite aside from the obviously irrational but ubiquitous dream of stardom. People who pump out septic tanks rarely expect to have a blast at work, get a blowjob in the parking lot, fill a stadium with adoring fans, buy a yacht big enough to ride a steeplechase on,  or leave their mark on their art.  So although they are not well paid, they are rarely expected to work for nothing, and they do not need to fear competition from other sewage suckers who will. The barman who wrote that letter is looking for someone to keep the drinks flowing, and he has a good point that high art and drunkenness do not make great companions. Bars and drunkenness are mutually reinforcing goals, and while drunks make a notoriously bad audience, they make wonderful customers. And there is perhaps an even better chance at the bj in the parking lot at a bar than at a concert hall. 

jimusic


There's a very small number of people who actually know what real talent is and even less that can spot it when they see and/or hear it.

Unfortunately, the number of people who actually care about any talent whatsoever, is even smaller. 

Most now mistake popularity for talent.

If they like it, then they think it's good, [even though it doesn't actually have to be] - and they'll almost always insist that that person or band is 'very talented'.

And yet the rest of us sit at home, refusing to 'play for beer' after entering the business some 25-30 years ago. 

I like what Shaggy said: "If it were up to talent, real actual talent, most of us wouldn't be here. 

I also like that he included himself in that fray.

Talking about club/pub gigs we shouldn't make actual talent a crucial factor. The way I see it, in every city there are clubs which are profiled to hire performers of special interest, young rising stars, virtuosos, progressive, striking attitude etc. People go to those places to hear something particular. They pay attention to the performer and are ready to receive what is offered. They either like it or not.
If they can recognize true talent, they're happy to see one.
 
The other side is pubs/clubs where people go to meet eachother, drink, dance..  In those places they expect the band to be in their service. They expect to hear certain kind of songs performed in a certain way. They couldn't care less about the talent or ambitions of the performer, as long as they're happy with what they hear.
 
Anyway, "true talent" is a tricky concept when we talk about entertaining people. It's no use to be a virtuoso if you can't reach the audience, and it doesn't matter if they say you can't play, if your interpretations and character makes the crowd go crazy.
  

About 15 years ago I was in a hippy jam band and we wanted to play out so I contacted a local club owner I knew and weaseled a gig with no demo stuff etc.

At the end of our debut night the club owner walks up beaming with happiness; "I sold out of Guinness and Harp... the rest of the kegs almost went dry"


All night long we had told our audience that we were thirsty and each time someone would volunteer to buy us a pitcher... which we promptly used to fill the glass of anyone who walked up to the stage and asked for a pour.

We ran em dry... and our audience didn't trash the rest rooms or the parking lot. Triple bonus!

We got to schedule the rest of our gigs at our pace and we were always welcome.

That band has been defunct for 10 years... but I get asked back when ever that club owner sees me.


That's how it's done.

;-)



best regards,
mike

This letter is certainly making the rounds on the internet. 

regardless of what one's personal take on it is.... Mostly, it's spot on. 

If a club owner could make his money with no band (lower overhead cost) he would. The only reason they hire musicians is to bring in the paying customer. A band who attract a crowd who comes to "hear the music" and doesn't ring the cash register is a waste of money to that owner. It doesn't matter how good they are musically, or how sweet they sound, if they are not increasing the sales, they are not working for him. 

I've seen it personally. I was in a band that played lots of long, guitar jam songs, with tempo changes and time signature changes..... the time sig and temp change would clear the dance floor every time.  (Go listen to Saddle Tramp by Charlie Daniels... we had that song note for note.) we would play a club and the owner would pay us and basically tell us don't call me, I'll call you....  We did a lot of one shot gigs.... eventually you run out of clubs to call and play or find a few honky tonks where the pay is really low and the people are not there to dance or listen to music. 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqDDKul93B0  stay with it for the change.  We played a bunch of songs like that.... the band was good, but people couldn't dance to it. The band fell apart. 

On the other hand, I've been in bands that played what the people wanted to hear and dance to: Wipe Out, Swinging, Johnny B Good, .....all short 3 minute songs that the people knew..... all the songs you groan when someone asks to hear it.... but the smart bands play those songs ...as many times as requested. They keep the dance floor packed and hot and thirsty. 

Our house band had the same gig for 2 1/2 years. Same crowd mostly, same place, same owner, same bartenders, same packed house every weekend.  That was a good gig.  We mixed the old standards in with new country radio top 40 hits. Start fast, slow, fast, slow, end the set and show on a fast one. 

A simple formula really if the band is interested in checking their musical ego at the door.  Yes, maybe you can play the extended version of Yes's Long Distance Runaround note for note and better than YES can.... but can you play Wipe Out? 




ADD: playing  for free.... man I have played more free jobs than I can remember.  A "free gig" is never free.... it's actually putting you in the hole. You have expenses such as gas to get there, and gear that you own, borrow or rent for the gig, and your time from the moment you start loading up until you unpack back at home 6 hours or more later. 

The question here is .... Is it ultimately worth it to you to do the gig for free? While there is the bar owner's side of the equation, there is also your side. Are you going to gain anything from playing.... including the simple satisfaction of playing your music for a live audience?  If you can answer that question with honesty, and satisfaction as to why you are willing to play for free or very little compensation, then you will be comfortable playing for whatever the situation brings. 

This thread reminded me of this song..... the words ring true to this topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1j-_fPGSdQ

A really, really good album, from back in the day. 

As a man who has started and run a successful business for over 21 years..... (security contracting/installation/servicing) there is one thing I do understand....

For me to get what I want, I have to give something to the customer that they feel has them winning the deal..... it has to be a win/win for both parties or the deal doesn't get signed or done. 

This same principle applies to bands and clubs. Nobody's getting rich but at the same time neither side should feel that they were screwed in the deal. If we felt a club was doing us wrong we would talk with them first and if that didn't get through, we would not play there.  Most club owners were upfront with us on the reality of the profit and loss statement for the weekend. Often we played for a set fee and knew the club owner made a profit well beyond our cost. 

In the band, I ran a merchandise operation on the side. There were plenty of nights where I walked out with more from T-shirt sales profits than from my cut of the gig.  I never had a club owner complain that I was selling merch in his club. Looking at it now, that was surprising since a customer/patron walks into the club with a fixed number of dollars in their pocket...and I was competing for a good chunk of those dollars with my merch. Maybe they didn't care as long as the bar numbers were up and consistent with other bands compared to the number of paying patrons. 

I don't play live gigs any more so this is nothing but an interesting discussion to me. 

In a different location on the net this same discussion is happening with a group of musicians all of whom I grew up with and played in various bands with. Those who are still playing have lamented the fact that the club biz now is not like it was back then. A few who do still play are the 2 guys or one guy, with the laptop in the corner of the lounge or restaurant playing for tips and a meal in many cases. 

Here in NC they are contemplating and discussing lowering the legal limits for DUI ..... from .08 to .04 BAC....... basically set at the same table with someone drinking and you are over the limit. One drink will get you handcuffed if stopped.  What's left of the club biz will be down the tubes if that passes. 

I think the band should play for the love of music and the bar owner should simply hand me drinks 'cause I'm such a fun guy.