Touch screen versus control surface

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Still use a mouse, and a keyboard?    A touch screen is just another type of input device. Having one does not mean having to stop using any other input device.   This is not about either-or.
 
Do you use the Matrix much?  Get a "small" touch screen, place it near your hand and use it to quickly trigger samples.  Like The Machine.
 
Display the Session Drummer mixer and make quick adjustments, trigger samples when testing,....
 
 

My thought for some time have been if to at least run one monitor as touch screen - and place it at 30-40 degree angle behind keyboard up against main monitor.
 
Undock and place mixer console on that touch screen monitor.
 
I don't know how well implemented the touch gestures are?

I use a touch screen on a dual monitor system and have it setup exactly as LFM described (WIN 8, X2).  It works great.  I also have a SURFACE RT that I use across the studio for tracking... I have it setup as a REMOTE DESKTOP to my main DAW and use WiFi to control my MAIN DAW PC while tracking instruments.... quite convenient not have to walk back and forth from the recording room to the control room.  Frankly, I love it and I am not a techie but surprisingly this was all EZ to setup.
 
Jim

I use touch. I don't plug in my alpha track anymore, but it has limitations and quirks. I don't know how much is code and learning curve. Grabbing faders is still much more natural than a touch screen. But the touch screen removes the whole mapping thing. You see it, you touch it, you control it. No moving something in one place that moves something else on your screen. So, I'm using touch. I use it the most while tracking or mixing with a friend. I also use it to set initial mix levels before creating envelopes. I like th2 with touch .

I find alpha track automation envelopes often come out smoother than touch writing of envelopes.

Changing tempo with touch blows when I'm practicing.

doncolga
Which video is that?...I'd like to have a look too. 

http://youtu.be/q3D6js9Pzqs

What Loptec says, I agree with. There is a real advantage to a physical device (especially if feedback starts!!). I have mixed several concerts now using my computer, but I've had a physical device between me and the mains with a fader I could pull down in each case. My compressor, for instance, with an output nob I can twist to turn it down really fast. Some times with touch, I have to touch it twice to gain control over it (maybe the program isn't sure what I want to control at first and gives me zoom control when I want the fader? I don't know). For live, I've used a mouse for precision and because my laptop doesn't have touch.
 
I suppose if you want to use touch to mix a live show with Sonar, you might want a special mode that presumes you want control of certain things...
 
I'll say too that I'm not sure how I'd do a show with Sonar the same as I do using TotalMix from RME. TotalMix allows me to set up a monitor mix, a main mix, and then to audition anything I want through the headphones. Best of all it has a button Trim. This is how it works...
Submix 1 - Mains
- track 1 at -20
- track 2 at -20
 
Submix 2 - Monitors
- track 1 at -25
- track 2 at -22
 
Click the trim button and now, when I move the faders for track 1 and two it moves the faders relatively on all submixes where the fader isn't at 0. This means I have the ability to boost the level of the lead guitar in the monitor and the mains at the same time with a single fader move. Or boost the lead singer... or reduce the bass...
 
I don't have to do this all at once. I can tweak a specific mix... but once the mixes are dialed in, I can make changes to all the mixes at once with the movement of a single fader.
 
I don't know how I would do something like this in Sonar. I guess, I would set up sends on all the different tracks to go to multiple mixes post fader. Then, if I want to change just the mix, I adjust the send. And if I want to adjust the level in all the mixes I use the volume fader. But I can tell you this would not do it for me for a live gig. I wouldn't be able to handle work with those tiny send pots to adjust level, and if touch swirled one of those pots around too fast it could be disastrous.

I'm not currently using 'touch' as it would require an upgrade to W8 and my backup software makes it a pain to do the upgrade. But I am planning an upgrade in 2014 and I am doing it primarily because I want ot take advantage of touch.
 
I think Jim Roseberry has it exactly right when he speaks of the OS APIs getting increasingly more robust as they evolve over time. I believe this will equate to greater sensitivity and higher accuracy rates. I'm very interested to see what happens over time. The one potential downside to touch that I see is multi-platform for those DAWs which are multi-platform. I think this may be why X2 is kind of leading the pack as far as touch implementation.
 
None of this is an attack on CS implementations, if I currently had one I'm sure I'd be happy with what it could do. But right now I am stuck with ACT for mapping fuctions to my M-Audio Keystation and I don't care for that per se. I looked into the VS-700 but Roland seems to have not been very responsive to their user base and the move to X2 - TBH on not 100% sure what the status is now but 6 months ago there were some seriously unhappy campers on that topic. If I drop a couple grand for a CS I certainly feel that it should work and what I'm getting is that the VS-700 works, but it is a 'mostly works'.
 
One thing I won't miss at all using touch vs CS and that is a dirty pan-pot...
 
Regards,

I use a simple vs 20 and a oxygen 49 as 2 control surfaces and im quite happy navigating around sonar.
it makes things a lot easier for panning and fader control.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/touch
 
Windows has been increasing touch functionality over time. For Windows 7, there is a fair amount of two finger touch control.
 
On windows 8, my kid and I can both draw with all our fingers at the same time on the same screen. It's loads of fun... finger painting digitally with no mess. :-)
 
For most touch needs, two fingers are sufficient, but it would not do for managing an entire console. You will want to be able to twist one pot while sliding a fader. The only thing I do using more than two on screen controls at a time is when me and a friend are both making adjustments to the console view at the same time.

Yo Konradh:  Fur shure   one-size-fits-all  does not look good on most of us.
 
The general fallacy is the new tool will replace the not-new tool.  Sometimes it gets close: most cars sold in the US have auto transmissions.  But ALL still have levers to select what the transmission is supposed to do.
 
Best human technology so far: paper and pencil.     Everything else is based upon these basics.
 
Mouses, alpha-keyboard, touch pads, touch screens, "piano" keyboards, control surfaces, voice control, microphones, speakers, midi guitars,....  And variations on all of these (ie multi-button mouse)
 
Some of these devices are just INPUT.   Some are just output.  Some are Input/output devices (control surfaces, touch screens).
 
Touch screen:
Great use: a remote touch screen for transport, fader adjustment,...
And:  small screen on desk for matrix, session drummer,...
For general mixing: not so much.
 
Some stuff works great with voice control.  Not most things.
 
"Real" faders are great for all the reason mentioned by others.
 
But I cannot conceive of EVER not using a mouse and alpha-keyboard. Paper and pencil.
 

To go a slightly different direction, is there anybody who makes a control surface that is basically just a set of motorized faders, pan knobs, and maybe mute/solo buttons?  I am thinking that a smallish real control surface could go well in combination with a larger touch screen.  I do expect riding the faders from the touch screen would be very unsatisfactory.  But I can imagine lots of other operations that would be very convenient from the touch screen.

The Raven MTX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHiXqcyu2M
Looks pretty awesome, even for someone like me who hates touch screens.
 
I feel bad for the big studio's who spent 100K on their mixing consoles, they may be replacing them with 5K worth of touch screens someday in the 'not too distant' future.

In addition to 'The Raven', Yamaha has a system out (Nuage) that appears quite similar. Not sure about Raven but IIRC Nuage was about $16K.
 
Regards

cparmerlee

mmorgan
I'm not currently using 'touch' as it would require an upgrade to W8

Is that true?  I had not heard that.  The touch screens I have seen have a separate USB line that carries "mouse" information.  I assumed this would work on any modern Windows release.
 
I have W8 on a notebook and can't stand the thing.  I love W7.

If you want to use Multi-touch with X2, you're forced to run Win8.
ie:  You can't grab two (or more) faders in X2 running under Win7.

One thing that several have commented upon is the lack of tactile feedback with a touch screen. I think that is a valid point but I also recall back (way back, like the 70s) when I first started fooling around in studios. The position of my fingers was not intuitive at first, and it always took awhile to learn the quirks of a different board.
 
And I would add for those that want some type of tactile feedback, it could very well be available in some future implementation. Something along the lines of vibration maybe with different buzz rates for different items (i.e. sliders, rotaries etc.). Just speculating...
 
Lastly, for those who don't like the smuginess factor (I don't either): trust me, your greasy little paw prints are all over you current CS but you'll never get them cleaned off. eheewww
 
In the end it's all good, use what you like and make music.
 
Regards,