clintmartin
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Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
Why won't it do the same thing twice? I zero meters and play, then repeat and it's different by a db or so. Another thing while I'm at it. When I set the ceiling to -0.1 and I reduce gain by 2 db, why is the master level at -1.3? Shouldn't it now be at -0.1? Other than the metering it sounds very good.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 00:56:57
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I suspect the auto release may have something to do with it.
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John
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 01:03:09
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Ok be sure that the PC is set to post FX bin.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 01:13:41
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Let me try this and I'll be back.
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backwoods
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 01:15:03
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It's a limiter- it doesn't push the signal up to the threshold, it keeps it below. You can keep pushing the signal against the threshold and "concrete" will chop off the tops while still keeping a good sound.
Also, like John says make sure it is post FX bin otherwise you may get overs- bamidi made that mistake and thought the concrete limiter "wasn't respecting the threshold".
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 01:47:54
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Yes, but If your master level says -1.2 and I set the ceiling on the CL at -0.1. As I lower the threshold it should start to limit when the master level gets to -0.1. Right? That's how my other limiters work. Anyway I'm still getting different outcomes whether its post fx bin or not...weird. I'll get out sonar x1 power book (I don't have the x2 book) and read a bit. Thanks
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backwoods
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 01:49:54
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If you take out the limiter does the track clip?
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 02:21:48
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Not even close. I'm actually well below zero to begin with. I'm using the CL on a few tracks as well as the master buss. I'm not at my daw now, but the project is around -6 db overall on the master buss. I was lowering the threshold to around -10. I also had (in order) the eq, the pc4k buss comp, console emulator and concrete limiter last. There is nothing in the fx bin.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 02:24:59
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I'm not getting overs. I'm not getting any louder than -0.9 so far. It's the gain reduction on the CLs meters that is inconsistant.
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backwoods
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 02:25:25
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If it doesn't get close without the limiter why would the signal peak at -.1?
You need to push the signal against the ceiling.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 02:54:14
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As you lower the threshold the signal gets louder. The main issue is getting the meters to say the same thing twice so I know how much limiting is happening. It's just not the way I'm used to a Limiter working. If the peak level is -1 and I want to raise the level to zero with a gain reduction of -3...then you would think lowering the threshold to -4 would do it. I'm used to a input level knob or fader instead of the threshold.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 03:07:44
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Ok, lets say the peak level is -1, and I set the ceiling to -1. I set the threshold to -3. what would the result be? I would guess somewhere around -2 gain reduction. Should it be the same everytime? I would think it should be.
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Wouter Schijns
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 06:12:37
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Hi Clint, know what you mean, CL compresses even when set to just limit -> my opinion.
Only using it for parallel compr, it's great for that I think...easy to set.
Never on masterbus, will take some life / make it sound flat a bit.
Would set any limiter on masterbus just to limit, set 2 pre-masterbusses, 1 all dry and 1 with CL, effects etc.
Blend them to masterbus and leave good portion dry, dial in compr in the CL bus to taste.
Just writing what I would do...hope it helps
Medion pc,Line6 GX,Sennheiser280,Roland A500S, SonarX3
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 09:37:22
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I really like the sound of the CL. I'm guilty of not using the PC as much as I should. The modules from Cakewalk are really very, very good. I'm trying to do a project with only PC modules for the first time. It's a learning exercise for me. I'm learning that I don't know as much as I thought about how the CL works! Hahaha. I usually use T-racks brickwall. I think the quality of the PC modules are about as good as anything out there.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 12:29:58
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Post had been selected were it should be. Concrete limiter is last in all tracks and busses. I will play the complete song and get -2.1 gain reduction on a guitar track. I can start half way through and sometimes get -3.7 on the same track. I don't understand that.
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John
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 14:28:17
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Could it be that when you restart the song the buffers that Sonar used have not been cleared? This can cause a momentary spike just at the very start.
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Wouter Schijns
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 18:03:52
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CL here doing the same, Clint.
Sonar and CL still are awesome, we learn from spotting/solving these probs that all Daws have probably.
Medion pc,Line6 GX,Sennheiser280,Roland A500S, SonarX3
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 19:53:05
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John
Could it be that when you restart the song the buffers that Sonar used have not been cleared? This can cause a momentary spike just at the very start.
That does happen, but I've watched closely and made sure that it wasn't what I'm seeing. At this stage I usually leave a few seconds at the start and use a volume envelope to help with that. Is there a better way? I would appreciate it John if you could try to duplicate what I'm seeing and make sure it's normal. It certainly isn't a big deal because I only try and limit a db or two and CL is transparent enough where I can't hear a spike of another db one way or the other. I can't seem to get my level to -0.1 with the CL without having huge gain reduction. Guess I'll have to do the final master with T-racks and use the pro channel for the mix. Life ain't all that bad.
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clintmartin
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 20:01:34
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Wouter Schijns
CL here doing the same, Clint.
Sonar and CL still are awesome, we learn from spotting/solving these probs that all Daws have probably.
I knew I wasn't crazy. Anyhoo the CL does sound great if I keep the gain reduction to around -3. I may try to bounce all tracks and normalize to -0.1 first and see what happens. I hate to normalize though because it raises the noise floor too. I usually use T-racks for this, but I've been so impressed with the sound of the Pro channel modules that I thought I would give it a go. I'm a persistant person so I'm just beginning to try and fiqure this out. I'm a bit surprised more people haven't chimed in with their CL knowledge, but I'm sure it's a lack of technique on my part and not a real problem.
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John
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Re:Concrete Limiter is driving me nuts!
2013/05/26 20:25:46
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clintmartin
John
Could it be that when you restart the song the buffers that Sonar used have not been cleared? This can cause a momentary spike just at the very start.
That does happen, but I've watched closely and made sure that it wasn't what I'm seeing. At this stage I usually leave a few seconds at the start and use a volume envelope to help with that. Is there a better way? I would appreciate it John if you could try to duplicate what I'm seeing and make sure it's normal. It certainly isn't a big deal because I only try and limit a db or two and CL is transparent enough where I can't hear a spike of another db one way or the other. I can't seem to get my level to -0.1 with the CL without having huge gain reduction. Guess I'll have to do the final master with T-racks and use the pro channel for the mix. Life ain't all that bad.
I have not seen this behavior. I have used the CL since it came out. and it has always work fine for me.
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