M_Glenn_M
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Removing hiss?
I have a nice track that has hiss you can hear in quiet moments. Compressing just makes it worse of course. Gating cuts out delicate parts. I wondered if i could copy the hiss and invert the wave to noise cancel it? Any tips on that?
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scook
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 01:12:35
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Maybe R-Mix and clip gain automation might help, other free solutions: ReaFIR http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/ and Audacity claims to provide a noise reduction solution. After that it gets a little pricey, iZotope RX2 or noise reduction tools in commercial audio editors.
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bigboi
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 01:37:23
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rcrees
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 01:51:58
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noynekker
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 02:05:42
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M_Glenn_M I have a nice track that has hiss you can hear in quiet moments. Compressing just makes it worse of course. Gating cuts out delicate parts. I wondered if i could copy the hiss and invert the wave to noise cancel it? Any tips on that? I have never heard of this technique to get rid of hiss ? Are you using Cakewalk plugins to try this, or an external audio editor ? I recently tried Cakewalk's R-Mix plugin to get rid of hiss on a mic'ed acoustic guitar track, and it didn't seem to help the track very much. Eg. when you lose the hiss, you lose the crucial high end of the acoustic guitar recorded. Best results I've found so far for reducing hiss on a track was with the Adobe audio editors "Clean-up Audio Noise" feature. Most higher end audio editors have a hiss reducing algorithm, seems the best way to go if you have them. There are many audio editor demos to download and try, it just doesn't seem to be something that Cakewalk has right now.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 03:16:53
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I think the inversion technique idea comes from a technique some folks use to clean up guitar leads on tracks. A lot of guitar lead tones have a BUNCH of noise, and one theoretical way to get rid of that is to record a track of nothing but the noise, and then invert the signal, and it will cancel out the noise frequencies (many of them anyways) from the actual guitar track with the noisy lead tone on it. Bob Bone
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 03:54:58
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Sampling some of the noise after and trying to invert it will not work probably because the sample you have taken is in another point of time and the waveform may not invert well at all. In fact you might just increase the noise that way. (I have never had success with this) You really need a separate software editor to be able to work on tracks and preferably an editor with a proper noise reduction algorithm. It is the only way and probably much better then RMIX as well. What you do is actually sample the noise on the actual track you have recorded. This becomes a noise profile. All you need is usually a small section with just noise and no guitar sound. Then you let the software perform its magic often in several passes as well. You only have to reduce noise in the quieter bits too because once a loud guitar signal kicks in it will masked anyway. It depends on how consistent and what type of noise it is as to how effective noise reduction is. Hiss can be harder in some respects. Too much noise reduction can effect the guitar signal too. It is sometimes much better to reduce it rather than trying to eliminate it altogether. Sometimes setting up a noise gate right at the source can be effective as well. But doing what Robert is suggesting is still a good idea. (capturing a noise print that is at the time of recording) Not so much for attempting to phase reverse and null (which won't work actually) but for a noise reduction plug to be able to capture its noise profile for later treatment. The null concept may work for mains hum but not random noise such as hiss.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 08:04:24
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Surgical envelopes would work assuming there is no other material in the track at that point. For example the very short spaces in a vocal track could easily be cleaned up in this manner..... however a track with hiss and an acoustic guitar playing softly would not be easy to clean up with this method. You can zoom and place the nodes a milli-second before and after the material and achieve the silence you seek. But the soft notes where you can hear the hiss through the note ..... yeah, that's not going to work. I think I saw a hiss remover in cakewalk.... although I have never used it. The best option is to not record hiss to start with , but I know that is not always possible, especially if someone else recorded the tracks.
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digi2ns
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 10:17:50
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X1 has a Gate you can set freq on. Have you tried HPF in the gate up to that freq? In other words if the noise is say from 8-10khz, Let the gate pass everything but that then adjust the sensitivity to cut/gate them levels
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AT
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 10:36:33
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There are noise removal tools - Sony's is pretty good. It does the sampling/removal thing - along w/ control of the amount of removal. Works pretty good. I've been using a little stereo recorder on some piano/singer gigs in a church - classical and pop from the 30s. The church has ac and the unit itself is a bit noisy. The noise removal makes it acceptable and if you are careful you don't really lose anything. @
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 10:51:39
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Thanks guys. Good ideas as usual. It is an acoustic guitar track. I do have a good sample (the count-in) but as said, altho I can't tell from listening, zooming in I see this wave is complex and will not be mathematically consistent thru the track. I'll look into the freebies, thanks and didn't think of the HPF gate idea.
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Beepster
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 11:04:13
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I recorded an acoustic/vocal track in a room that had background noise due to a fan. R-Mix removed ALL of it. Seriously try that out. It works amazingly well for a freebie... oh wait. You're still on X1? hmm... Not sure how crippled the demo version is but it would seriously be worth trying. Also some kind folks recommended Izotope RX2 for heavy duty audio restoration and it looks awesome. Supposedly the demo is fully functioning so might be worth a look as well... http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 11:18:33
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So R-Mix is included with X-2? (I'm still x1 due to still being with XP)
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Beepster
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 11:21:04
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Yup. The light version anyway but it's still quite handy and powerful. Not quite sure what extra features come with the full version.
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WallyG
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 11:35:47
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Beepster I recorded an acoustic/vocal track in a room that had background noise due to a fan. R-Mix removed ALL of it. Seriously try that out. It works amazingly well for a freebie... oh wait. You're still on X1? hmm... Not sure how crippled the demo version is but it would seriously be worth trying. Also some kind folks recommended Izotope RX2 for heavy duty audio restoration and it looks awesome. Supposedly the demo is fully functioning so might be worth a look as well... http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/ I have several recordings of my band of years ago that had a lot of audience noise. I know that its' difficult (impossible?) to remove this since the sounds are so random, but has anyone had any luck with this product or any others to filter out audience background noise? Walt
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digi2ns
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 12:02:36
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I just checked, Its the Sonitusfx Gate Im thinking of.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 12:25:11
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This has been a subject that I have worked on with little success for a long , long time. To do this , my conclusion is tools like iZotope are considered the best by most pro's. I tried the demo,,, my brain exploded. I won't believe anyone who say's they used a low end noise reduction and retained the integrity of the track. The noise reduction will always trash something. Always. Sure, electric guitar or bass might be easier, but not complex sounds like a live choir or a acoustic performance. And Sonar is not the best software either, tool copy the offending track into a proper wave editing program like wave lab and work there. The best results for me have required hand work. It's not hard do do in a wave editor but can be time consuming depending on how many tracks and how long. What I do is zoom in on the wave, highlight the place where the background noise will be heard and apply either an EQ or Gain reduction, depending on material. Wave lab lets you fade in and out of these cuts so you won't interfere with the original sound. And it's a one or 2 mouse click operation, in Sonar this would take a zillion clicks. Do your self a favour, If you need to do wave editing, purchase a real wave editor and save yourself a lot of time AND do a better job of it too.
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scook
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 12:46:54
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Missed the X1 in the sig. Forget R-Mix. With X1 you are down to the expander/gate, EQ, envelopes and maybe ReaFIR. As far as editors go, I would not spend money on one unless it had a decent set of tools (which runs into money) There are a few good free ones, such as Wavosaur http://www.wavosaur.com/ or WaveShop http://waveshop.sourceforge.net/ Wavosaur has the advantage of using VST plug-ins.
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LANEY
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 15:32:05
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Theycallmefree
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 16:10:58
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Glenn: I am no sound engineer, but I have some friends that are pro at scrubbing. I really can't tell you the secretes of how they do it, as many of then will not tell me all the details. I am sure the suggestions might help but let me put in my 2 cents. The best way to get rid of noise on a track, is not have it there in the first place! First you say it is an acoustic guitar. But, how are you recording it? Last night I listened to Grand Funk doing "Don't Look Back" on an acoustic, recorded 40 years ago, in 1973. One of the best sounding acoustic guitars I have ever heard on a recording. No computers back then, and no noise in his track. If you are recording the acoustic with mics, be sure to use mic pre-amps. The better the pre-amp the less noise in the mic signal, and they get very expensive. You want dead silence in the mics when there is "NO" sound, before you record. For instance spend time adjustng the pre-amp properly for the sound you desire. You can place a mic in font of a stereo speaker and let a CD play as you adjust it for EQ, Threshold, input and output signal. pre, low cut, etc. It will help, to bring up the Hi-Mid on the pre-amp. The hiss is usually having too hot a mic. Point one mic at about fret 10, and the other near the bridge base of the guitar, none at the hole of the guitar. Make sure the meters at the armed track are not floating up the scales with dead silence, this is a sign they are too hot. Get the gain right on the mics, and then carefully lower the output signal compared to the in gain at the pre and mic, to achieve a recording signal from about -6 to -15 dbs when struming the guitar. By reducing the output signal along with the gain signal achieve total dead silence in the signal when you are totally quiet. One will outweigh the others ability to do this. So now that you have that adjusted, you should see a -6 to -15 db at the armed track as you strum the guitar, and totally nothing on the meter when your are silent. Place the mics in position to how close they are to the guitar for tweaking this signal according to what you are playing. Of course noise at places in the track where you meant to be silent like tapping your foot etc...can be spliced out of the track, in clip automation or other ways. Do that last as the volume automation will prevent you from doing the mix, or you can do this and then bounce it to a new track, and remove the envelope at that point. The total dead silence factor on a mic signal beats trying to remove noise from a already recorded track. the better the original track was recorded the better the end product. You probably need to be a sound engineer to actually know all the pros amd cons of master scrubbing. Ambient sounds is another story. I assume they do both in line and mic recording and then have an engineer scrub it properly. Some of this gear gets way into the bucks. If you are recording "line in", get a Boss noise reduction for the guitar feed, and run the out, assuming it is XLR through the pre-amp and do the same process. Also, use a Baggs or Zoom or some processor to reduce noise reduction, Fishman acoustic amps have a Anti Feedback built in that also helps. You should hear absoultly nothing in a signal when it is dead silent. Live recordings another story. Heavy Metal again, another story. So go listen to the signal at dead silence and hear if you are achieving that to start with! Then take the above advise and you are starting to get a professional scrubbed track. Best of luck! Free PS: Go ahead and plop another 2 gigs of ram into that pc.
post edited by Theycallmefree - 2013/05/29 16:24:47
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 21:51:57
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A great thread thanks. More than I expected. Good advice all round. I could rerecord it and the above advice is great for that too, but I always like seeing what I can do with what I have as a learning opportunity. In this case I got some pretty impressive results (IMHO) out of the sonitus gate with the low pass filter.
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gswitz
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 23:27:36
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On mono tracks, where you're wanting compression, consider multiband compression (compress the noisy frequencies less or not at all). Also consider lowering gain on noisy frequencies. What about plain old EQ. You can automate some of the EQs. I think the Pro Channel EQ Automation is a little goofy or slow or something. Sometimes the automation works and sometimes it's slow. Like a tight millisecond notch may or may not work on bouncing in my experience. You might consider adding another EQ for automation. I've noticed some threads on PC EQ automation as well. Not sure what the truth is. But certainly you can automate the other EQs you can add to the project. That way, you can duck the noise when you boost the quiet parts and relax the EQ when you have more signal.
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LpMike75
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/29 23:45:57
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R-Mix works well for this. I just used it to clean up some old analog tape recordings for a friend. It actually has a preset for hiss which dialed it in very close
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chuckebaby
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/30 00:11:42
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ive found the best restoration/remove hiss, hum, exc is izotope RX 2. there may be a 30 day trial im not sure but if you happen to get your hands on this tool it is amazing. ive taken distorted crummy 25 year old reel / 4 track vocal tracks and cleared them right up. good luck buddy.
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brconflict
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/30 10:58:27
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This is truly hiss in the source, and not as a result of a plug-in, right?
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Cactus Music
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Re:Removing hiss?
2013/05/30 11:08:06
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Steve- Wave Lab7 Elements is only $90. It comes with everything you need for home studio and semi pro work. Your Sonar plug ins will also be available. The full blown version would be nice but is $$$. Once you've used it, you will find using Sonar to edit a wave file or mastering pre historic. It's the same with Melodyne for pitch correction, simply better for the job.
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