CadErik
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X2 and VST3?
Read somewhere that X2 would support VST3 but haven't seen any sign of it in the new promo. Some new plugs start to be available only in VST3 format...
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BlixYZ
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 01, 12 11:08 PM
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yeah, thanks for bringing that up. what possible reason could there be to delay support for vst3????? lets stay on the cutting edge
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wynnsong
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 01, 12 11:17 PM
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Rain
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 01, 12 11:20 PM
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Z3ta is now available for Mac (!!)* as Audio Unit and VST3. Don't know if that's an indication of things to come on the PC for Sonar. * My eternal gratitude goes to Cakewalk for bringing my most favorite/most-used softsynth ever to my platform of choice.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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LANEY
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 01, 12 11:30 PM
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i7/16GB ram Win 7 x64 SONAR Platinum Producer x64 VS-700 C&R Octa-Capture and VS-100 for live recording
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stevec
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 0:13 PM
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VST3 is important! But only if you have VST3 plugins!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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soundtweaker
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 1:10 AM
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and even then it's not really important.
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DW_Mike
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 10:35 AM
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LANEY VST3 is important! Don't you mean: VST3 is important! ...?  Sorry Freddie, I couldn't resist. Mike
Sonar X3 ~ Scarlett 18i6 ~ Home Build DAW GA-Z77X-UD5H Intel i7 3770k 4.2GHz 32GB RAM Crucial Ballistix Elite (4x8) 2x Samsung 250GB SSD 1TB WD Black HDD @ 7200RPM 6Gb/s 64MB Corsair H80i Liquid cooler Noctua Silent Fans ~ 3x120mm ~ 1x140mm Seasonic Platinum 760w PSU Windows 7 Pro 64Bit.
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cclarry
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 10:56 AM
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I think I already asked this question guys...in the other fred...
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cclarry
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 11:07 AM
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I just checked the other fred and no one from the Bakery posted a response....
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bitflipper
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 7:58 PM
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VST3 is right up there with "gapless audio engine" under the heading of "stuff I don't care about and am mystified why anyone would". Not trying to start an argument...no, wait, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. C'mon, all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why. (BTW, the judges will not accept "it's the future" as a valid argument.)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 8:03 PM
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"all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why." I think it's the only way I'm ever going to get my keyboard to sound like a real life saxophone. There, I said it. ;-)
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Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 8:21 PM
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bitflipper VST3 is right up there with "gapless audio engine" under the heading of "stuff I don't care about and am mystified why anyone would". Not trying to start an argument...no, wait, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. C'mon, all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why. (BTW, the judges will not accept "it's the future" as a valid argument.) VST3 is only important for running VST plugins that use the extra functionality of the v3 spec, other than that I think there is some improvement in how they show up automatically categorized in apps. designed to take advantage. 'Gapless Audio' or glitchless looping as I prefer to call it is a no brainer for anyone but an immaculate and manly 'Chuck Norris' of a musician such as yourself who can nail everything first time, others, including myself, given their obviously lesser, mere mortal capabilities may have to resort to a choice of alternate takes from a repeated looped section. Not having the Audio sound like a car being driven through a plate glass window on the end of each iteration can be a much more rewarding experience when tracking. I've found that out whilst using other current applications that seem to already be able to manage this.
post edited by Jonbouy - August 02, 12 8:27 PM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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wynnsong
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 02, 12 8:27 PM
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bitflipper VST3 is right up there with "gapless audio engine" under the heading of "stuff I don't care about and am mystified why anyone would". Not trying to start an argument...no, wait, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. C'mon, all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why. (BTW, the judges will not accept "it's the future" as a valid argument.) I get that it won't benefit you...but it will benefit many folks... I think it's also important to stay on the cutting edge of technology instead of always playing catch up.. Here are some highlights....keep being mystified if you must. http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/technologies/vst3.html NEW VST3 FEATURES Improved performance Managing large plug-in sets and multiple virtual instruments on typical studio computer systems can often be difficult because of CPU performance limits. VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed. Multiple dynamic I/Os VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs. Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration they’re inserted in, meaning that any VST3 plug-in can be surround-capable with true multi-channel processing. For example, all the new VST3 plug-ins in Nuendo 4 can work in stereo-mode when inserted into a stereo channel, but switch to 6 channels when inserted into a 5.1 channel. Each audio channel is processed independently. Interaction between channels depends on the type and design of the plug-in. In addition to their flexible audio bussing capabilities, VST3 plug-ins may also offer a dedicated event bus. Typically, this is a MIDI input for control/modulation but these busses are no longer restricted to MIDI standard only. Future plug-ins may replace the common MIDI interface with alternative methods of control. Activating/deactivating busses A typical issue with current virtual instruments is their audio output bussing system and how they’re connected to the mixer after loading. Especially virtual samplers with multiple outputs often occupy more mixer channels than need. The VST3 interface offers the possibility to deactivate unused busses after loading and even reactivate those when needed. This cleans up the mixer and further helps to reduce CPU load. Resizable edit windows VST3 introduces a new approach to plug-in GUIs though window resizing, allowing for extremely flexible use of valuable screen space. Sample-accurate automation VST3 also features vastly improved parameter automation with sample accuracy and support for ‘ramped’ automation data, allowing completely accurate and rapid parameter automation changes. Logical parameter organization The plug-in parameters are displayed in a tree structure. Parameters are grouped into sections which represent the structure of the plug-in. Parameters like “Cutoff” and “Resonance” could be grouped into a section called “Filter”. This makes searching for a certain parameters easier, such as on an automation track. This also allows assigning a group of parameters to a specific MIDI Channel input and audio output bus. Optional VST3/SKI combination As a direct result of the modular interface design of VST3, the Steinberg Kernel Interface (SKI) can be combined with VST3 plug-ins. SKI is an additional SDK that allows extremely close integration of a plug-in with a Steinberg host application, and allows functions to be carried out almost from within the application. This extends to the ability to create tracks, copy, cut, paste or process events in the Steinberg host application. SKI is provided to selected industry partners upon request. VSTXML for remote controllers Remote controllers for audio and MIDI software applications have become increasingly popular. With VSTXML, VST3 offers far more flexible control of VST plug-ins by remote controllers. Using the knobs and faders on the control surface, parameters can be recorded, renamed and edited in many ways. Parameters that cannot be edited can be routed for display purposes to the control surface, for example to show Gain Reduction on compressor. UTF16 for localized parameter naming In VST3, all strings that can be displayed to the user are in Unicode (UTF16) format. Usage of this universal character base allows the host application to display characters in localized languages. No MIDI restriction for parameter value transfers VST3 has a dedicated interface for event handling that carries a much wider range of functionality than standard MIDI events would be able to provide. This opens up a big range of opportunities for musical use cases with very high potential for innovative product design. For example with VST3 some controller events (for example, pitch) can be referred to a note event (using a note unique ID). This offers the possibility to e.g. modulate only a single note which itself is part of a chord. Audio inputs for VST instruments The VST3 interface expands VST instruments by adding the ability to create audio input busses. As a result, audio data can be routed to an VST3 instrument. A synthesizer which has a built-in e.g. vocoder effect is able to process audio data coming in from other sources as well. Multiple MIDI inputs/outputs Unlike with VST 2.x,, a VST3 plug-in can have more than only one MIDI input or one MIDI output at the same time. 64-bit processing VST3 plug-ins are generally able to process audio data in 64-bit. BACK TO TOP
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bitflipper
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 1:22 AM
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No need to copy-n-paste Steinberg propaganda; I've already read it -- and then some. If VST3 were an incremental improvement in the spec, I'd have no quibbles with it. But it's a major rewrite of the interface specification, most of it for no good reason other than to assure incompatibility with everything that's come before. Developers hate it. Usually when you're told to throw everything out and start from scratch, there's some kind of payoff. Resizable windows? They had to rewrite the entire spec to get resizeable windows? Solitaire has had a resizeable window since Windows 2.0, before Cubase's engineers were out of high school. Microsoft is famous for this kind of tactic, but Steinberg, for all its pretensions of grandeur, isn't Microsoft. (How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they just redefine the standard as "dark" and embark on a multimillion dollar ad campaign to convince all users of "light" that they are woefully behind the times and not keeping up with the cutting edge.) [Jonbuoy: sorry, I forgot that some people loop takes. Call me Chuck Norris if you like, but truly I do not record that way. No, I rarely get it right the first time. I might get it right on the 200th time - and that's when I hit "R" and record #201.]
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:02 AM
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. Call me Chuck Norris if you like, but truly I do not record that way. Nor would I if I was restricted to Sonar's current ability to loop succesfully... Automatic take lanes and glitchless looping within Sonar will be a revelation (if they get them working properly) trust me.... Regards to the original topic whether you have views on the VST3 spec or not, many plug-ins, whilst not maximising the extra functionality available, are already offered as an alternative alongside the VST 2.4 ones by many vendors anyway, the main advantages there are better plug-in management, scalable windows and various other refinements. Given that there are many VST3 plug-ins available already I'd say adding support for VST3 is a cheap way for Cakewalk to add further appeal to existing users and potential customers alike. After alll adding support for it is a much more trivial matter than designing plugs for it which is why many DAWs already support it.
post edited by Jonbouy - August 03, 12 7:33 AM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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tecknot
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:21 AM
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@ Bitflipper "Not trying to start an argument...no, wait, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. C'mon, all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why. (BTW, the judges will not accept "it's the future" as a valid argument.)" - How about, because everyone else has it?
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tecknot
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:21 AM
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panup
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:30 AM
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Which VST3 effects would you guys buy if it was supported by X2?
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John
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:36 AM
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Scalable windows are a reality in VST 2.4 already.
According to Noel VST 3 actually brings nothing new. All that was listed is doable in VST 2.4. I personally have no problem with CW adopting it as long as they are not impeded by it in any way. That would include licencing. Check out Melda Audio all their plugins come in both versions with the same abilities including scalable windows. My only problem is Steinberg's control of it, if it does keep control. That I don't know. I have seen some backlash towards it though. We shall see.
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Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:36 AM
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panup Which VST3 effects would you guys buy if it was supported by X2? TBH I can't even think of any that leverage exclusive features of the format (although I believe such things do actually exist), but I'd likely install the ones that are supplied by vendors alongside the v2.4 ones, for the reasons I've already stated.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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cclarry
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:44 AM
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panup Which VST3 effects would you guys buy if it was supported by X2? Many of the plugs I already have (Waves i.e) are already VST3 compliant. Not all of us can afford a HIGH END Computer System, and not all of us work in a Recording Studio, where purchasing things is tax write off. VST3 is important (to me) because of improved CPU handling, just as the "Steinberg Propaganda" says. THEY wrote the ORIGINAL VST standard...and no one saw a need for that when they did it....and NOW everyone uses it.. Then the VST2 standard...and everyone complained about not needing it...and NOW everyone uses it.. Do you see a pattern here? They wouldn't go through the painstaking process of a complete re-write of the standard for "resizable" windows guys....let's at least TRY to be realistic when we approach this... There was a NEED for the re-write. To improve upon the "old" and make it better... Just like X2...we could say....X1 was just getting fixed....and I don't see a need for the change... And I'm sure in a year all the nay-sayers will be saying ...oh I love VST3 There are definite benefits to the new standard... If you don't care fine...but don''t downplay the importance to the INDUSTRY just because it's not important to YOU... There's my 2 cents...
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:48 AM
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Per note dynamically mapped valve leakage on the Scarbee Mark4 will be a aural revelation. ...when it finally happens, I predict that Spittle Burst & Air Suck Phraser will sweep the music scene faster than you can say Camel Crusher.
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Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 7:54 AM
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mike_mccue Per note dynamically mapped valve leakage on the Scarbee Mark4 will be a aural revelation. ...when it finally happens, I predict that Spittle Burst & Air Suck Phraser will sweep the music scene faster than you can say Camel Crusher. WB Mike Nice to know some things will NEVER change or improve. There's a certain security in that.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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wynnsong
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 5:31 PM
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bitflipper No need to copy-n-paste Steinberg propaganda; I've already read it -- and then some. If VST3 were an incremental improvement in the spec, I'd have no quibbles with it. But it's a major rewrite of the interface specification, most of it for no good reason other than to assure incompatibility with everything that's come before. Developers hate it. Usually when you're told to throw everything out and start from scratch, there's some kind of payoff. Resizable windows? They had to rewrite the entire spec to get resizeable windows? Solitaire has had a resizeable window since Windows 2.0, before Cubase's engineers were out of high school. Microsoft is famous for this kind of tactic, but Steinberg, for all its pretensions of grandeur, isn't Microsoft. (How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they just redefine the standard as "dark" and embark on a multimillion dollar ad campaign to convince all users of "light" that they are woefully behind the times and not keeping up with the cutting edge.) [Jonbuoy: sorry, I forgot that some people loop takes. Call me Chuck Norris if you like, but truly I do not record that way. No, I rarely get it right the first time. I might get it right on the 200th time - and that's when I hit "R" and record #201.]
Look I know it's not what you find appealing but some of us use Sonar differently than you. Sounds like you have more issues with it as it relates to programming rather than usability or creatively. I personally need/want this: There are few VST3 advantages over AU: 1. VST3 supports multiple MIDI ports as opposed to VST2 and AU which support only one MIDI port at a time. This is especially handy if you're trying to offload some of the instruments you might be using to program such as Vienna Ensemble Pro. 2. VST3 is surround capable. Actually I'm not sure if AU is surround capable or not, so excuse if I'm wrong on this one. When you insert a VST3 effect on a track - you get an effect for every channel (6 effects for 5.1 surround, 2 for Stereo, 1 for MONO). 3. VST3 goes offline if you have no audio going through it. If you have 100 tracks, with 100 effects, but only 15 play at a time, then your CPU only computes those 15 effects that are being utilized at a particular moment.
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 03, 12 5:44 PM
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It's unlikely that vendors such as these are gonna devolve to VST2 just to sell licenses to SONAR users: http://www.synchroarts.com/index.php?PAGEID=home Maybe someday we'll be able to actually run a 64bit Quicktime codec in SONAR and use powerful tools like Vocalign VST3.
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Blogman
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 04, 12 10:51 AM
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A good example of needing VST3 is when using Vocal Rider (amazing btw-) It has the option to sidechain the music so that it compensates for the music getting louder whilst riding the vocal. This function is grayed out in Sonar as VST2 doesn't support sidechaining. Sucks to spend the big bucks on WAVES plugs only to find your DAW doesn't utilize the latest technology. So now we wait for VST3 support. Must Have!!
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lowdown
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 04, 12 11:09 AM
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There are few VST3 advantages over AU: 1. VST3 supports multiple MIDI ports as opposed to VST2 and AU which support only one MIDI port at a time. This is especially handy if you're trying to offload some of the instruments you might be using to program such as Vienna Ensemble Pro. 2. VST3 is surround capable. Actually I'm not sure if AU is surround capable or not, so excuse if I'm wrong on this one. When you insert a VST3 effect on a track - you get an effect for every channel (6 effects for 5.1 surround, 2 for Stereo, 1 for MONO). 3. VST3 goes offline if you have no audio going through it. If you have 100 tracks, with 100 effects, but only 15 play at a time, then your CPU only computes those 15 effects that are being utilized at a particular moment. I am not sure why anyone would not want at least that. Garry
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john6448
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 08, 12 8:36 PM
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From what I can tell VST 2.4 retains the 16 midi channel limit per VST instance. As someone who gets involved in orchestral compositions, wouldn't I rather be able to break that limit and give myself fewer instances to manage when there's so doggone many orchestral instruments? Just bought VSL Special Edition, doesn't this become important to me? I ask this with an open mind, because I am inexperienced in such things.
John B. ------------------ Sonar X2 Producer Primary Use: Orchestral MIDI with Softsynths 2.5 GHz Core2 Quad 8300, 8 GB RAM Windows 7 64-bit VSL Special Edition Cinematic Strings 2
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LANEY
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Re:X2 and VST3?
August 08, 12 9:32 PM
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Blogman A good example of needing VST3 is when using Vocal Rider (amazing btw-) It has the option to sidechain the music so that it compensates for the music getting louder whilst riding the vocal. This function is grayed out in Sonar as VST2 doesn't support sidechaining. Sucks to spend the big bucks on WAVES plugs only to find your DAW doesn't utilize the latest technology. So now we wait for VST3 support. Must Have!! +1!
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