Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken.

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chitwilber
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June 07, 13 8:41 AM (permalink)

Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken.

 I talked about my Presonus problems and trying out the X2 Demo in an earlier thread but didn't state the reasons for not updating to X2. I encountered several crashes, Tracks menu features cutback, missing Now Time cursors and several other annoying glitches. I also found some new neat stuff. But that's already been discussed here.
Since Cakewalk Pro 3.0 I have been entering notes in Staff View with a mouse. For me, Staff View is now unusable, therefore broken. I know "them's fightin' words" but this is not the politically correct Nineties and so I want to make it clear I'm not talking about "impeded work flow" or "getting used to 'better' ways" spin that I've read about all over this forum.
These were Staff View deal killers for me:
1.) You Can't Rt. click notes to edit note properties if they are above or below the 5 staff lines! This was an intermittant problem in that some notes had this problem and some didn't. My impression was that it was worse on new tracks being freshly edited but I didn't spend enough time to figure it out.
2.) You can't mouse enter notes with the Staff View window in Full Screen because the note selection menu is now in the main Track View!? --- (The Fullscreen notation window hides the note selection menu!). So, you can't work on a FullScreen notation window (and the docking blue area popups are a nightmare to deal with when moving an undocked Staff View window around).
3.) Clicking on a non standard note value will no longer copy its timing properties! For example, if you click on a note that you have altered to last for 8 beats (two whole notes tied together), it will later be entered as a dotted whole note (6 beats). Similarly, If you shorten an 1/8 note by a few ticks to get a little more punch and then click on it to enter more of these, they will be entered as 1/8 notes at full tick value. That means you have to hand edit every single note to shorten it by a similar amount! Heaven forbid all of these notes aren't above or below the staff lines! (see #2 above).
4.) You can no longer mouse enter a 'clicked & copied' dotted quarter note on the downbeat of the timeline to a different location on the upbeat of the timeline (no matter how you set the Snap values (or turn it off). You have to enter it as a new note.
5.) MIDI Notes cannot be dragged from one notation 'system' to another. If you are in Staff View viewing multiple staves, you can no longer drag a note from one stave to another stave. You have to delete the note and re-enter it in the new stave. So if it has any non standard values they have to be manually re-entered also (see above).
These are features that were previously implemented and working well but have now been broken or taken away. 
It took me less than an hour to find these new problems. If the programming team used the program themselves for an hour they would have found more problems than I did. No No, I'm being facetious by saying that and I don't really want to start a fight. That's just the bitterness and frustration in me talking because I can't give them more of my money. I have a long time history with Cakewalk (as many of you do) and a huge library of files in the Sonar formats. Switching software will not be a trivial task for me and Cakewalk is probably aware of that. I have to assume that Cakewalk knows exactly what they put on the market.
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    konradh
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    Re: Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken. June 07, 13 1:00 PM (permalink)
    I have some but not all of these issues in X1d.  If X2 makes Staff View worse, I cannot afford to upgrade since I do 90% of my work in Staff.  For those who are curious, I am not talking just about film scores.  Most of my work is country, rock, and indie-folk and I compose and sequence everything in Staff View.  The other views for me are for special fixes (e.g., tweak controllers in Event List or inspect legatos in PRV).

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #2
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken. June 07, 13 1:27 PM (permalink)

    2.) You can't mouse enter notes with the Staff View window in Full Screen because the note selection menu is now in the main Track View!? --- (The Fullscreen notation window hides the note selection menu!). So, you can't work on a FullScreen notation window (and the docking blue area popups are a nightmare to deal with when moving an undocked Staff View window around).

     
    I rarely use the staff view so can't comment on most of your woes but this part is incorrect. Press "T" (or middle mouse button) to show the HUD for note length selection.
     
    The blue docking areas can be ignored by holding the Ctrl key down while releasing the mouse button.
     
    HTH
    #3
    jsg
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    Re: Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken. June 07, 13 1:44 PM (permalink)
    First, complaining on the forum is natural, I do it too, but it's not a substitute for filling out the Cakewalk bug report forms, if you haven't already done so.
     
    To get the "process" menu in the staff view, which used to be right-click, you now have to press either CTRL-right-click, or Shift-right-click.  Probably a bug, but an easy workaround.
     
    I have the same problem with notes below the staff, but not with notes above the staff--getting their properties to come up is hit and miss at best.  So, use the Event Inspector on the control bar.  Instead of trying to right-click to get properties, just lasso the note with the Select Tool and change the properties in the Event Inspector.  Actually, that's how most DAWs work.  Yes, a bug, but an easy workaround. 
     
    The problem of shortening a note and then copying and paste it and finding that the note value reverts to its default value is not a new bug, Sonar has always worked as such.
     
    I've reported both of these bugs, but the more people who report them means the more likelihood of them being repaired.
     
    As far as full screen is concerned, that irritated me too, until I realize that if you turn off ENABLE FLOATING for that window, when you maximize the size of that window it will NOT cover the top menu (*what you are calling the "selection menu". 
     
    Dragging notes from one staff to another:  I have not seen a problem with that.  I do it all the time with X2a.
     
    Keep in mind that X2 is the only DAW that I know of that allows you to have many staff views open at the same time (locked views).  This saves an enormous amount of time for those composers who use the staff view frequently.  Instead of having to constantly redefine which instruments are up on the staff, you just dock and lock the various staff views with the instruments you want for that view.  This alone makes Sonar X2 great for composing, although the bugs you mention are quite annoying.    Go over to the Cubase or Digital Performer forums and see if those DAWS are bug-free...
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
    #4
    chitwilber
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    Re: Mouse entering notes in Staff View is broken. June 08, 13 3:36 PM (permalink)
    @FastBikerBoy I don't have the demo anymore so I can't verify your suggestions, but I really don't need to; I'm sure they work & thanks for the possible help for others reading this.
     
    @jsg I was trying out the demo of a product that's been out almost 2 years. What motivation should I have to file a bug report when the bugs are keeping me from buying the product in the first place? I should have been more clear in #1 above. It was the 'Note Properties' Menu window that failed when I right-clicked a note that was off the staff. I couldn't find a keyboard shortcut to open that and in fact, when I tried again later to look for keyboard shortcuts I couldn't find binding assignments for ANY keys (zero). I don't know if I used an incorrect procedure to import current settings in the installation procedure or what. I didn't mention this and a few other things above because I just wanted to focus on my Staff View troubles that kept me from buying X2. As far as clicking to copy note properties, you are right Jerry, and I am wrong. I went to my Sonar 8.5 and found the same problems. I hadn't picked up on this because I've always been in a habit of using CWPA 3.1 to enter my MIDI parts and then I record audio and complete the project in Sonar 8.5. haha What a PITA, but that's what I've been doing. And the same is true (that I'm wrong) about entering dotted quarter notes and also moving notes between staves because this doesn't work in Sonar 8.5 either! Jerry, I don't know how you drag notes from one staff to another. I can't do that.
     
    Anyway, I was wrong on some things, but I still don't intend to spend more money on X2 and for the same reasons I listed. Actually, I'm happy that I have 8.5! Kind of like the best of two worlds -- CWPA 3.1 (lol) for midi and 8.5 for audio (and file compatibility). Big problem is, CWPA 3.1 won't run on W7 x64, so I have to also use another (XP) computer for midi work.
     
    I won't buy another DAW until I can better my present setup, so I might be stuck in my present situation for awhile. Cakewalk seems to be moving away from where I want to go.
    Thanks for the input, this forum is still #1!
    #5
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