AnsweredChording on bass? How?

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trimph1
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2013/06/07 21:27:22 (permalink)

Chording on bass? How?

Dumb question I know but how does one do a chord on a bass?
Same way for guitar? 
Or are there other ways to do this?

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droddey
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 00:37:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby trimph1 2013/06/08 20:52:28
It's basically the same, as the top four strings anyway. You have to be more conscious of muddiness when chording on the bass. A brighter tone generally works better, and sometimes doing an up stroke (with pick or fingers) may work better to create a more defined chord. Lots of folks who play with their fingers just pluck all the strings (at least they ones they want) at once similar to the same thing on a guitar.
 

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The Band19
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 01:30:20 (permalink)
Bass playing is easy, typically one does "not" play chords? You hold down the rhythm and lock in w/the drums... The job of the bass player is to create and maintain "the groove..." And hold down the bottom, PERIOD. 
 
And yes? I'm a bass player, and not a bad one either.
post edited by The Band19 - 2013/06/08 01:33:28

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 04:33:38 (permalink)
Playing single lines on bass is only one form of bass playing and more common. But chordal playing is just as valid.
 
Check Victor out in this:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz8qHxsKu6A
 
 
 
 

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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 08:46:37 (permalink)
edit: I embedded Jeff's link suggestion:

 
 
Victor frequently runs 1 and 2 week camps.
 
I know several bass players whom have attended the camps and I have observed that they came back completely transformed as both musicians and human beings.
 
I have a taste for old school, simple bass lines, but I have learned that bass players have to be conscious of all the harmonic possibilities to play their best. Once they know all those chords, playing them doesn't seem out of bounds.
 
When they master the technique it is a wonder to behold.
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
 
 
post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/06/08 10:05:50


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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 09:37:38 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby trimph1 2013/06/08 20:53:36
The Band19
Bass playing is easy, typically one does "not" play chords? You hold down the rhythm and lock in w/the drums... The job of the bass player is to create and maintain "the groove..." And hold down the bottom, PERIOD. 
 
And yes? I'm a bass player, and not a bad one either.




Uh... plenty of bass players use chords. I used to use them all the time.
 
Anyway, as was mentioned bass chords are generally formed the same as you would on the top four strings of a guitar. I'd type up some diagrams but the forum is screwing up the format. The most effective to strike all at once is fifth chords. Either played with two or three notes like this...
 
I V (two notes means less muddiness, use index and pinky)
I V VIII (octave stands out, lower notes may sound muddier, use index, ring finger and pinky or just index and pinky)
V I (inverted, can be played with one finger, less muddy, could also be considered a perfect fourth)
 
One very useful and powerful fifth chord is playing E, E, B, E. You would be making a power chord starting on the A string with the root at the seventh fret and leaving the low E open. Great for accents and resolutions on songs in E. If you flat the note on D string you have now create a nasty sounding diminished chord which is cool too. The same can be done for A by just moving the power chord to the D string and omitting the low E (start on the low A). You can include the low E but it tends to bury the rest of the chord. Another cool way to do this is at the second fret. I V VIII V... for this you'd create a bar across the second and third strings with the index finger for the V and VIII then use your pinky for the high V. You can try moving this form around the neck too and drone it with the open low E string.
 
Droning. Pick an open string then map out a scale on the string below it. Move around the scale while droning with the open root string. Very cool.
 
Then there are bar chord style triads and 7ths. These will be difficult to play and require a lot of hand strength. They will also likely come out muddy without the right tone but can be good for arpeggio style playing, pop and slap, etc... It also sets up the "cage" for walking basslines but these forms aren't the greatest for bass because of the five fret stretches involved. The form directly above it (closer to the nut) is easier to move around in as it is a four fret stretch. If you are doing jazz or blues this form can be useful for walking between scale steps chromatically like in the Minor Blues or Be Bop scales. Remeber that when doing walking basslines you want to land on one of the chord notes on the upbeat so even if you aren't fretting the entire chord at once just visualizing the notes is helpful.
 
Major (can only be achieved starting on E string)
I V VIII III  Use index for I, ring finger for V, pinky for VII, middle finger for III
 
Minor (again can only start on E string... the minor third is denoted by the miniscule Roman Numerals. Create a bar across all four strings because the 1st and fourth strings need to be fretted by the index finger, Again use the ring and pinky to fret the V and VIII)
 
I V VIII iii
 
Major 7th (can only start on the E string)
 
I V VII III (create a bar across all four strings with the index finger which will fret the I and the VII. Use the ring finger for V and middle finger for III).
 
Minor 7th (can only start on the E string)
 
I V VIII iii (create a bar across all four strings with index finger which will fret the I, V and iii. The ring finger frets the V)
 
You can create a 7th chord starting on the A string but you lose the third. Simply move the above patterns down one string and drop off the bottom note.
 
The more traditional way to look at bass chords is more how you'd form triads in first position on the guitar (think of the top four strings of a G chord or a C chord where the root is further up the neck than the other notes). These forms however definitely sound dull and muddy when sounded all at once. They are however extremely useful for setting up walking basslines, arpeggios and just plain gaining access to the notes you need when you need them as the harmony moves along. I'm sure you are already familiar with the forms for G and C Major in first position but these forms can be moved up the neck and easily turned into minor chords as well.
 
Like this...
 
Major
 
I, III, V, IIII  (The I is fretted with the pinky, the III with the ring finger. Create a bar with the index finger across the bottom two strings to fret the V and the VIII).
 
Minor
 
I, iii, V, VIII  (This is played exactly the same as the major form except you flat the third (iii) and use the middle finger to fret it instead of the ring finger)
 
You can use these two patterns starting on the A string as well. Simply put the root on the A string, create the form and drop the bottom not (now you will not be barring across two strings with the index, just fretting one note with it). When using these forms on the A string you also gain access to a low fifth on the E string so you can plink back and forth between the I and V by simply moving the pinky to the E string. You still retain the form for easy access to the other notes.
 
So although these chord forms don't sound as good when struck at once they are really really useful, can be placed anywhere on the neck and quite easy to play so I thought I'd mention them. Still though try ringing out combinations of these notes to see if you come up with anything you like.
 
Beyond that you can look into half diminished chords, augmented, 6ths, 9ths, etc but I won't go into a full chord study here.
 
Now those are the forms but there is a lot more to getting bass chords to sound good. The attack is obviously very important. If you are using a pick I recommend using the big heavy Tortex pizza slice style bass picks. Hit your chords harder than you would a single note (but not so hard you cause clipping or mash the strings into the pickups). When I used to play a lot of bass and went in for a chord it was almost like I was punching the strings. I  found getting them to slap against the fretboard a bit would get the chord to pop and stand out more.
 
Another approach is to sweep across the strings instead of trying to sound them all at once. This is a more gentle than the "punching" approach. It's kind of like a really sped up arpeggio. Think of how you might play a chord you want to ring out on an acoustic guitar. You kind rake the strings right? Same idea. This gives the individual notes a little more definition. It won't really work at high speed though.
 
If you are playing with your fingers one way is to rake all four of your right hand fingers across the strings starting with the pinky and kind of rolling your hand while extending the fingers outward (think of a flamenco guitar player and how he fans out his right hand for those bright, aggressive chords). Make sure you are striking the strings with your fingernails (the flat part then slide to the tips). This creates a bright, cool sound effect because not only are you raking across the four strings like with the pick you are raking across each of them four times (once for each finger). You can see guys like Les Claypool do this.
 
Another way is the old slaparoo. Just use your thumb as a hammer on the strings you want to sound. Do this very close or right on top of the end of the fretboard so the strings "slap" against it. This also helps keep the strings from hitting the pick up which is very bad... especially in the studio. This is usually best done on no more than two strings at a time.
 
Then of course the is the "pop" method. Dig your finger tips slightly under the strings you want to sound, pull upwards and release.
 
Appoyendo. This is the standard way to play bass with ones fingers (hand at a right angle with the index and middle fingers reaching down toward the strings). Not the greatest for chords but you can just sweep from the bottom strings upward with the pads of your fingertips. This is more define if you have a little bit of fingernail to use but it's very easy to split or break a nail if you aren't careful.
 
Now for tone. For chord heavy bass lines I personally like the old school overdriven Ampeg SVT sound. Use lots of tone and warm mids. Too much bottom end can make things too muddy for chords. However there are tons of ways to go at it so just mess around with some sims or whatever.
 
You could also just simply use a harmonizer but that ain't the same.
 
Anyway sorry if if you knew a bunch of that or if it was boring but I was just waking up and figured it would be a good way to kick start my brain for the day. Happy plucking. ;-)
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drewfx1
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 11:48:10 (permalink)
You have to be careful with chords on bass becoming a mud-fest. Every note has overtones and you're starting lower on bass so the dissonances can be a problem. Wider intervals tend to work better. IOW you don't necessarily play the same voicings when chording on bass.
 
But double stops, especially fifths and fourths (inverted fifths), but also thirds, on the highest 2 strings are quite common.

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Beepster
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 13:50:01 (permalink)
Yeah, the bottom strings/higher notes definitely cut more. One cool thing to try is a bass wah type effect. When playing the higher more brilliant notes have the "wah" effect more closed then open it up for the lower stuff so it kind of evens out. To make it not noticeable would take some work but bass wah is cool anyway. Just a thought.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 17:36:47 (permalink)
Thanks Mike well said. I am friends with Frank Gambale as well and Frank has played with Victor on many ocassions and told me of his greatness. Victor is also very good at laying down simple single fat lines too in the music that is for sure. He does that most of the time.
 
I have also played with bass players who can play chords too and it can be very interesting from a drummers perspective too. I think it depends on the music obviously but it does change the texture of the music for sure. It requires all in the band to have a very open mind about what the bass player should do. Sometimes when the bass chords come up high enough they can sound like a classical guitar or it reminds me of that.
 
Bass players who do this usually have very nice bass guitars too with a very clear sound down in the bottom register. That will cure some of the mud issues that might prevail. Also the amplification needs to be pretty stellar too in order to hear it.
 
A Fender bass with dull strings playing through a woofy amp won't cut it. 

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Kev999
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 20:16:17 (permalink)
What Jeff said.
 
Whether bass chords are suitable depends on the instrument, the settings and the style of playing. With a deep punchy sound, chords can sound awful.

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trimph1
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 20:56:38 (permalink)
@Beepster...wonderful outlay of the tricks of the trade here!!
 
The thing I was looking at seems to pretty well match up with what I was thinking Lemmy was doing when he was with Hawkwind...some of the chording was something else..
 
Again, thanks guys for your input..you all are part of the reason I like this forum so much!!

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Kev999
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/08 22:42:42 (permalink)
I should also mention that pickup design is another factor influencing whether chords will sound ok on a bass.  With some pickups, the signals from 2 separate coils don't mix together well.
 

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Beepster
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/09 08:49:36 (permalink)
I'm glad you liked it, Trimph. Sorry I couldn't get some fretboard charts in there but as I said the format was making it a hassle. Good mental exercise putting it all into text anyway. It has been a loooong time since I've given a bass lesson. lol
 
As far as Mr Kilmeister... although he is revered by many I don't think he gets enough credit for just how good of a musician he actually is. Solid, tight and knows his stuff. I got to see him live close up one time and he really is "motoring". Not only that he does it with seemingly no effort at all. I guess it just isn't as noticeable because of the high gain and getting buried under distorted guitars. Hawkwind definitely highlights his playing a lot more. Although I never listened to much Motorhead when I was young and playing bass my style was definitely more like his than the other methods I mentioned. I can KIND of play those other ways for short periods but it inevitable falls apart or sounds like crud so I just end up whipping out the pick. Guess that comes from being mainly a guitar player.
 
I just remembered another chord trick (not exactly a chord but utilizing a chord for a rhythmic effect) I used to employ quite often. Very simple but effective. I'd just set up an octave interval, let's say C at the third fret on the A string and fifth fret on the G string. I'd hit the lower note when the kick drum hit and the upper one for the snare shots. Sounds cool for punk/straight metal beats and it's super easy. Cheers.
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/09 09:31:18 (permalink)
I saw a bass player at a church I was attending a few years back play a "special" based on the song... Jesus Loves Me.... that was absolutely amazing. Jazz and chords, mostly higher up the neck....

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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/10 13:33:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby trimph1 2013/06/11 09:53:23
Hi Trimph,
 
This is a great question you asked and you received some valuable feedback already. Pay no attention to anyone that tells you NOT to do something on an instrument and experiment on your own bro. Bassists have been chording for years. Two examples of this (in brief) would be:
 
1. A single guitar player band: When you have one guitar player, as soon as he goes into a guitar solo, that rhythm drops out. It sure is helpful when you have a bassist that can keep things moving as well as trying to recover some of what the song has lost once that guitar breaks into a solo. You never quite recover it all, but it sure helps when you have a bassist that knows how to cover in a single guitar band.
 
2. Thicker instrumentation presence: In certain sections, the bass switching to chords can really thicken up and orchestrate a piece a bit more. Have you ever heard someone say "man, for 3 guys, they sure do make a lot of noise!"? This means all the dudes in the band are creating a full sound for just having 3 guys. And to do that, it really does help when a bassist has the mentality to be a team player and do what is needed in a section. Michael Anthony from Van Halen is an excellent example of a bassist that has this ability. He's no fantastic bassist, but he's brilliant for a 3-piece rhythm section and the right man for the job in any band he gets in. Now keep in mind, it helps when you have players like EVH or Satch playing lead to keep your focus off of "what just dropped out" when they go into a solo, but knowing you have a bassist that can make it a lot better really does help.
 
The one thing to be careful about is the mud that's been mentioned. Low strings forming chords create a distortion as well as a dissonance that is sometimes very unpleasant as well as unwanted. One of the key reasons for this is not being in perfect tune. A bass that is a few increments out...or one that is tuned "by ear" may sound more dissonant than the bass that is tuned with a tuner. That said, as soon as you high pass that stuff a bit, the bass comes to life and actually sounds presentable. My bassist in my original band has 3 sounds he uses which are just a matter of twisting knobs on his Factor bass.
 
He has his "play with the band sound" which is a normal, solid bass tone. He has his "pop/slap" tone and then he has the tone he uses when he "chords" on passages. The differences are in the amount of high end and low end. The normal bass sound is neutral...the pop slap has less highs so it doesn't sound like it's clipping....the chord sound has less lows and a little more highs. Picture it like compensating for the normal sound using chords. You wouldn't want as much low end in the chord sound because you want it to come through....and a little more highs so the chords can be understood and audible. This way when he switches back to the normal sound, it's not this drastic change-over. It's seemless and nothing over-powers. It takes a bit of learning how to tone shape in real time, but he's been playing 35 years so he's used to it. :)
 
Anyway, have fun with this...just beware of the distortion and possible dissonance. If you're not playing live, this should all be easy for you because you can just dial in two different tones on two different tracks. Just make sure that the change in tone is not drastic from one to the other because you want it to be so smooth that no one picks up you did this. :) Good luck brother.
 
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/10 14:50:53 (permalink)
For me, I always use open chord voicings.  Meaning I always leave out the most unimportant note.  On a major and minor and 7th chords, that would be the 5th.  Otherwise I have a low open string as a base and then use major and minor triads usually more than an octave higher but at least a 6th higher.

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Kev999
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/10 17:44:23 (permalink)
Sometimes I fret 2 notes but only pluck one of them, letting the other one vibrate in sympathy. It's a nice subtle effect.
 

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trimph1
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2013/06/11 09:54:10 (permalink)
Great!! 
 
@Danny...I just noticed the post here...thanks for the great tips there!!

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

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maxcabral
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Re: Chording on bass? How? 2014/02/27 14:07:13 (permalink)
I think this site can help you here
 
www.e-chords.com/bass
 
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