Using volume versus gain envelopes

volume.
 
it is simply automating the fader rides....
 
 
 
gain, is another issue altogether, especially if you have any plugins 

Yes, a quick look at the signal flow diagram will show you that if you intend to compress a track, it's best to do this before any fader automation, or after any clip automation.
 
I think of clip automation as a sort of "coarse" compression, with the actual compressors having less work to do if the levels are relatively flat
 
If you do your fader levelling prior to compression, all your carefully sculpted levels can go totally out of whack when you add compression.

Well, in my excursions, I never have use "Gain" for anything in audio tracks (or even "Trim") because of the way I guess I record, so I always use "Volume".
 

i use both. mostly clip gain.

In theory, either method should work.  But I've found that when attempting a quick cut/boost of the level, say to reduce a harsh sibilant, the volume envelope sometimes won't make the cut at the right place -- if I manually draw the cut right where I want it, the envelope won't necessarily cut it there, but at some nearby spot instead.  So for those, I just split the offending sound into its own clip and use the clip gain to reduce its level.  Seems to work better.
 
Cheers,
Eddie
 

batsbrew
POST FADER
VERSUS 
 
PREFADER
 
 
PLUS
 
EFFECTS IN LINE (NOT NECESSARILY 'SEND AND RETURN')
 
IF YOU INCREASE GAIN WITH AN ENVELOPE,
YOU WILL DRIVE YOUR EFFECTS HARDER AT THE SAME TIME.
 
which can cause clipping and/or distortion/harsh sound
 
gain structuring is key to clear sound.
 
 
no effects, no anything but the clip, then it simply raises the gain of the clip for that automation period.

 
Nailed IT!!!!

This link is your friend:
SONAR X2 Signal Flow Diagram
 
Most important:
 
Clip Gain > Track FX (gate? compressor?) > Track Gain
 
Realising that fact made an incredible difference to my ability to sculpt the sound the way I wanted it. Strange things would happen before I figured that out, because every time I adjusted the clip gain, my gates and compressors affected the signal differently.

OK. I had a bass guitar track, with some variation in recording level and 'noise between the notes'. I set up gate and compressor effects to tame the signal - remove the worst of the noise and level out the volume.
All was fine and good until I decided to use a clip gain envelope to boost the level of the bass in the first verse.
What happened - and I didn't notice this immediately - was that a) the bass got noisey-er and b) the volume of the bass track didn't really go up as much as I thought.
Of course, now we know why: I was driving the gate with a louder signal, letting more noise through the gate, and the compressor was doing its level best (sorry!) to prevent the volume from getting louder.
 
I think this bad practice stems historically from my equating "clip gain" to "track trim" as it used to be called in earlier versions of Sonar. Most people I'm sure never got into the habits I did.
 
I now use track volume envelopes a lot more than I used to. In hindsight, it seems very obvious, but at the time, I thought I knew what I was doing. 
 
Does that explain what I meant earlier?

While we are on the topic of envelopes - I have a few more technical questions: 
 

• On some of my tracks I can see the faint "ghost" of some envelopes past; not sure which they are and finding them hard to ID them as I scroll through the myriad of choices in the drop down list. Is there a way to highlight all envelopes in a track at once - to then hover over for ID, then delete as needed?
• on inserting clip gain --unless I am doing wrong - it inserts the envelope in every clip on the track...unlike volume envelope - on "delete" it just does one clip at a time! is there a way to get rid of all clip gain envelopes at once?

Yes that is how to highlight any envelope-- ! Thanks. Live and learn. 

Thanks for this help. I have X1 and as far as I know - it does not have automation lanes feature -- for audio anyway, unless it does and I don't know how....   

Pardon?