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stevelikesadam
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2013/06/18 21:06:07 (permalink)

[SOLVED]

EDIT: PROBLEM SOLVED.
 
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 19:57:48
#1
noynekker
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 21:35:53 (permalink)
Hi . . . welcome to the forum !
What soundcard do you have ? And what are you ASIO or WDM buffer settings ? (in preferences)

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#2
noynekker
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 21:35:39 (permalink)
Hey DreamForecast . . . welcome to the forum !
What soundcard do you have ? And what are you ASIO or WDM buffer settings ? (in preferences)

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cubase, RME Babyface Pro, Intel i7 3770K @3.5Ghz, Asus P8Z77-VPro/Thunderbolt, 32GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 660 Ti, 250 GB OS SSD, 2TB HDD samples, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, backed up by Macrium Reflect, Novation Impulse 61 Midi Key Controller, Tannoy Active Near Field Monitors, Guitars by Vantage, Gibson, Yamaki and Ovation.

 
#3
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/18 21:42:07 (permalink)
Thanks, I have a M-Audio ProFire 610.  It can run in both WDM and ASIO mode, though at the moment I'm running it on ASIO.  I've tried both though, and there seems to be no difference in performance.  
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:00:01
#4
scook
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 21:44:27 (permalink)
Could it be how your have the plug-ins configured? Some plug-ins can stream samples to reduce RAM usage. They can be reconfigured to load completely into RAM.
#5
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/18 21:51:49 (permalink)
scook
Could it be how your have the plug-ins configured? Some plug-ins can stream samples to reduce RAM usage. They can be reconfigured to load completely into RAM.


That sounds like a possible lead.
Is there anyway you'd recommend doing this?  Like, is there a global switch in Sonar X2?  Or do only some plug-ins let you do that? (Kontakt/Omnisphere/Massive?)
Thanks.
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:00:20
#6
scook
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 21:59:43 (permalink)
The plug-ins are where this config would happen. SONAR does not limit the RAM a plug-in uses.
#7
daveny5
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 22:09:39 (permalink)
I don't believe plug-ins necessarily chew up that much RAM. Windows could be swapping some of that into the paging file. Audio tracks do take up a lot of RAM. I don't think that's what's causing the pops and clicks though. What do you have your ASIO buffer size set to? What bit depth and sample rate are you using? Maybe you should try turning off the Windows paging file and see if that makes it use more RAM. 

Dave
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#8
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/18 22:54:57 (permalink)
daveny5
I don't believe plug-ins necessarily chew up that much RAM. Windows could be swapping some of that into the paging file. Audio tracks do take up a lot of RAM. I don't think that's what's causing the pops and clicks though. What do you have your ASIO buffer size set to? What bit depth and sample rate are you using? Maybe you should try turning off the Windows paging file and see if that makes it use more RAM. 


It doesn't actually pop/click too much during playback.  Audio works fine.  It's just the soft-synths.  It's when I'm playing a heavy instrument live (after many heavy instruments have already been added -- usually 25-30 tracks).  I should also mention my latency, usually super low, starts to lag more and more.  My buffer size is currently set to 256 (both in Sonar and in my ASIO panel).  I'm running at 48 kHz / 24 bit. 
 
I'll try the Windows paging file thing sometime.  How bad is it really for your system?  I've read mixed opinions on that.
 
Thanks for your response.
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:00:42
#9
jscomposer
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/18 23:04:21 (permalink)
I use those same plugins, and they actually don't use a ton of RAM. I use a lot of Play instances (Eastwest) and they chew up a lot....up to 32GB depending on the project.
 
Do you have any other programs running in the background on Windows? Have you tried updating your M-audio driver to the latest 64bit version?
#10
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/18 23:05:39 (permalink)
daveny5
I don't believe plug-ins necessarily chew up that much RAM. Windows could be swapping some of that into the paging file. Audio tracks do take up a lot of RAM. I don't think that's what's causing the pops and clicks though. What do you have your ASIO buffer size set to? What bit depth and sample rate are you using? Maybe you should try turning off the Windows paging file and see if that makes it use more RAM. 


Okay, I tried turning off the pagefile, but my problem hasn't gone away.  Sonar still hits the ceiling at about 1.5 GB of RAM.  
 
Thank you so much for your time and effort, by the way, I really appreciate it.
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:01:07
#11
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/19 00:05:48 (permalink)
jscomposer
I use those same plugins, and they actually don't use a ton of RAM. I use a lot of Play instances (Eastwest) and they chew up a lot....up to 32GB depending on the project.
 
Do you have any other programs running in the background on Windows? Have you tried updating your M-audio driver to the latest 64bit version?


Hmm, I should try that out sometime. 
 
And yes, I have updated to the latest 64-bit driver. 
 
The thing is, even though Sonar isn't using up a lot of RAM, it still seems to need RAM, because the latency starts lagging and the occasional pops and clicks start coming in.  
 
Thanks for your response.
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:01:36
#12
Tom Riggs
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 02:21:01 (permalink)
When the project gets a bit heavy I usually freeze the synths I am not practicing or recording to free up  resources.
 
Also if you have added and audio effects that reply on pdc that can cause issues as well.
 
I don't think what you are experiencing is the result of memory but more likely processor.

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#13
mudgel
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 05:42:41 (permalink)
I agree with Tom. A ton of ram only helps a little.
You are.more likely limited by a.combination of cpu, audio interface and drivers. Devices do have a limit and when you reach it, pops and crackles result.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#14
Pragi
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 09:43:23 (permalink)
Hi and welcome here.
 
Have you thought just about a test project were  to plug in  synths and fxs which are
heavy CPU ressource hungry ? One after the other till your machine dies?
I would be curious about your result!
I want to do that with my new machine the next days..
Have fun 
Pragi
#15
brconflict
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 10:49:06 (permalink)
I agree as well about the extra RAM. I doubled mine from 8 to 16Gigs and witnessed no improvement. I know this is all mostly CPU and I/O intensive, more so than RAM, but If a song could fit entirely into RAM, that would be cool.
 
I'm wondering if freezing tracks, or bounce-to-clips to reduce the FX overhead would allow Sonar to store the audio in RAM?

Brian
 
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#16
scook
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 10:55:45 (permalink)
Usually to fix the recently described issues would be to adjust interface buffers or freeze tracks. If there are a lot of plug-ins there is an adjustment that can be made to the AUD.INI described here that might make a different.
#17
js516
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 13:13:24 (permalink)
If there are audio tracks (or frozen synth tracks): the buffering of audio data on playback is controlled by the hard disk buffer size. Increasing these values will cause sonar to preload more audio track data into memory. See the lower half of the page linked below:
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013007
 
 

Joe Sera
 
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#18
slartabartfast
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/19 14:23:59 (permalink)
DreamForecast
 I open up Task Manager to see how much RAM is being used, and by golly, only around 1.5 GB of RAM.  My plug-ins (which are also 64-bit, by the way), are begging to have more RAM but perhaps Sonar X2, the host, is refusing it.  
 


It seems there may be two issues here that may not be related. One is that you are having clicks and pops (presumably from dropouts) and the other is that you do not believe working random access memory is being assigned to Sonar and the various plugins appropriately.

How did you determine that your plugins are begging for memory?
#19
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/20 19:02:40 (permalink)
slartabartfast
It seems there may be two issues here that may not be related. One is that you are having clicks and pops (presumably from dropouts) and the other is that you do not believe working random access memory is being assigned to Sonar and the various plugins appropriately.

How did you determine that your plugins are begging for memory?




1. I think you may be right.  However, despite the pops and clicks, I am not getting dropouts, which is weird.
2. I think the plug-ins need memory because
- they keep killing notes when I play too much (though those are fully polyphonic synths).  Also, there is a crackle sometimes when I play them. 
- a latency delay starts to develop (now I'm not sure if this is related to RAM or Sonar or soundcard -- sorry for being such a noob and thanks for putting up with it xD)
 
Yeah...
 
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:03:37
#20
rabeach
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/20 19:24:13 (permalink)
DreamForecast
slartabartfast
It seems there may be two issues here that may not be related. One is that you are having clicks and pops (presumably from dropouts) and the other is that you do not believe working random access memory is being assigned to Sonar and the various plugins appropriately.

How did you determine that your plugins are begging for memory?




1. I think you may be right.  However, despite the pops and clicks, I am not getting dropouts, which is weird.
2. I think the plug-ins need memory because
- they keep killing notes when I play too much (though those are fully polyphonic synths).  Also, there is a crackle sometimes when I play them. 
- a latency delay starts to develop (now I'm not sure if this is related to RAM or Sonar or soundcard -- sorry for being such a noob and thanks for putting up with it xD)
 
Yeah...


As Tom stated above it doesn't sound like your issue is specifically ram related. I would suggest that you load up a East West Quantum Leap synth or two in a new project and I'm guessing you will see an increase in ram usage. I believe your issue is related to configuration of audio and midi buffers. But there are already people here who can walk you through that better than I.
#21
Tom Riggs
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/22 01:02:38 (permalink)
If sonar is dropping midi notes increase the midi buffer size in settings> midi there us a setting something like prepare midi. I usually set mine to 500 or 1000. This will help eliminate midi dropped notes.
 
I'm mobile at the moment so I can't look up the details. 
 

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#22
sharke
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/22 01:34:40 (permalink)
You should be able to tell if it's processor related or not by looking at the CPU usage meter on the control panel. As soon as one or more of the cores start peaking into the red, you're going to get pops and clicks. 
 
The latency delay could be related to plugins that use "look ahead" technology, for instance the Concrete Limiter. I would try turning off your effects one by one to determine if any particular ones are causing the latency. 

James
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#23
stevelikesadam
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reply 2013/06/22 18:39:35 (permalink)
sharke
You should be able to tell if it's processor related or not by looking at the CPU usage meter on the control panel. As soon as one or more of the cores start peaking into the red, you're going to get pops and clicks. 
 
The latency delay could be related to plugins that use "look ahead" technology, for instance the Concrete Limiter. I would try turning off your effects one by one to determine if any particular ones are causing the latency. 


Thank you, it is indeed the Transient Shaper, one with look ahead.  You were spot on!  Thank you so much again!
post edited by stevelikesadam - 2016/09/21 20:05:22
#24
jm24
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/23 10:51:06 (permalink)
Do re-enable the pagefile for the OS disk only, as system managed. It is needed for windows to do what all it does. Including recording data about errors.
 
 
#25
soens
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Re: X2 (64 bit) refuses to use more than 1.5 GB RAM 2013/06/23 19:44:41 (permalink)
sharke
You should be able to tell if it's processor related or not by looking at the CPU usage meter on the control panel. As soon as one or more of the cores start peaking into the red, you're going to get pops and clicks. 
 
The latency delay could be related to plugins that use "look ahead" technology, for instance the Concrete Limiter. I would try turning off your effects one by one to determine if any particular ones are causing the latency. 




Just a side point. Sometimes when my system is sitting idle my HP warning flag alerts me that I have high system or CPU usage... Really?! When no programs are running?! Something's going on in there!
#26
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