Helpful ReplySonar wont record MIDI that it is registering?

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EtherealEntity
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2013/07/05 22:06:16 (permalink)

Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering?

Hi,
I am having a problem using MIDI devices into Sonar. Input shows on my interface where the MIDI cable is plugged in. The input on the channel is set to interface OMNI but I've tried it on all device OMNI too to no avail. Signal is not shown in the channel level.
However if I right click a control to 'remote control learn' it, my devices show to be sending data into Sonar just fine and I can set them up to control things.
It's several devices plugged into a MIDI Solutions Quadra merge. Currently an example is that Sonar will record some action from my Behringer FCB1010 which is acting kind of as a keyboard, 10 footbuttons outputting note commands. These get recorded to piano roll just fine. My keyboard activity however does not, nor does its sustain pedal, mod wheel etc - though all these things show up on learn.
#1
EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/05 22:16:49 (permalink)
No issue recording into Sibelius or Protools.
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daveny5
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/05 22:20:26 (permalink)
Sonar records anything that gets sent to it. Look at the Event List and you should see all the pedal presses and whatever is sent to it. 
 
Keep in mind, MIDI is not sound so you need to assign the MIDI track to a sound source, such as Dimension Pro or TTS-1 if you want to hear something. Insert a softsynth into the synth rack and then assign the output of a MIDI track to the softsynth. 

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#3
slartabartfast
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/05 22:29:49 (permalink)
You are a bronze member so I am assuming you are experienced with Sonar. Nonetheless, it is not clear that you have experience recording midi from your post. The "remote control learn" working indicates that your hardware is communicating with the Sonar application. That does not mean that your track is properly set up to receive midi, as learning (an application operation) is not the same as recording (a track operation). The failure to record midi suggests that you do not have your input of a midi track properly set to receive data from your midi device, or that you do not have the track armed to record or that the track is not active/selected. If you are experienced with recoding midi and have the track properly set up, I apologize for re-stating the obvious. Provide more information about exactly how you have set up your tracks and maybe someone can be of more help.
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Kev999
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/05 22:46:34 (permalink)
When you say "it is registering", do you mean the softsynth, i.e., can you hear the note when you press a key?  If not, then you need to sort this before you begin recording anything.
 

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#5
EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/06 10:18:36 (permalink)
Thanks guys, but sorry yeah I know all this already - as stated input is set properly and I also set it to All just incase. Input echo on, record arm on..simply nothing gets recorded (only in Sonar) when pressing keys on my keyboard but it does when pushing the footpedals for notes instead. Originally I was trying with just a MIDI track but I thought I'd set up it's output to a synth just incase it was necessary to record but it didn't change anything.
Kev, when I said it is registering I meant I know Sonar is seeing the notes because I can use them to control parameters.
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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/06 10:44:40 (permalink)
I'm inclined to try it without the MIDI merger etc just device>interface MIDI input but the fact that the midi input on the interface is lighting up anyway and it records into other DAWs just fine, I'm guessing this is pointless (and it will also be a trip into cable hell..)
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daveny5
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/06 14:57:29 (permalink)
Did you look at the Event List and see what is being recorded? Even though it's only control info, it might give you some clues as to what's happening. 
 
I agree with taking the MIDI merger out of the loop. Process of elimination is usually the best way to fix a problem. Its definitely a problem with your setup. Sonar works quite well with MIDI. 
 
 

Dave
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MarioD
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/06 17:01:22 (permalink)
Are you absolutely sure that the MIDI track you are recording to is set to the same device MIDI channel that the device is sending? Maybe your MIDI merger is changing things? 

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e.Blue
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/06 17:27:12 (permalink)
Try making sure that you have looping enabled when recording. I have also noticed this issue when recording audio.
 
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#10
EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 12:16:19 (permalink)
Hi guys,
-Looping: Why would that make a difference? Tried it though to no avail
 
-Input device: Positive. 4 devices midi outs into midi merger into RME Multiface MIDI in. Input set to Multiface MIDI Omni. Also tried All Devices Omni. Either should work.
 
-Event list: Nothing there as there is nothing being recorded. Well, I say nothing, as stated - the footpedal buttons are working ok.
 
Here's the specifics:
Footpedal with 10 Note buttons - recorded succesfully.
2 expression pedals on the footpedal sending controllers 1,2 / 3,4 etc all the way up to 20 depending which of the 10 note buttons was pushed last. NOT RECORDED
Keyboard keys - not recorded
Keyboard sustain pedal - not recorded
Keyboard mod and pitch - not recorded
 
So I tried removing the merger. Plugged the footpedal straight into RME MIDI In. SAME RESULTS! No expression pedal activity recorded. Only the note ons.
 
Keyboard still didn't work straight into the Multiface.
 
Once again the RME Multiface signal light is lighting up with ALL attempted commands, along with the 'MIDI Activity' light on the Windows Taskbar. And as stated, the remote control. I can set anything in Sonar to be remote controlled with any of these things that wont record, such as the keyboard, expression pedals...
 
And once again it works flawlessly in ProTools. Open up Protools, create MIDI track, press record and the event list shows note ons from the keyboard and footpedals, sustain pedal, mod wheel, pitch bend, expression pedals..
 
I appreciate the attempted help so far guys! This makes no sense at all
#11
scook
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 12:23:24 (permalink)
Have you verified you settings in Edit > Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording? There are checkboxes to filter the MIDI data that is recorded in SONAR.
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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 12:38:33 (permalink)
Thanks
Thought you might be onto something there but then realised it should definitely be recording the keyboard notes if it's recording the footpedal notes. Indeed, all checked.
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WDI
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 12:42:29 (permalink)
Not looking at Sonar right know but I believe omni shows up for each midi device you have. Are you sure on the midi track you have actually assigned the correct device as input. Also, if you have successfully inserted a soft synth in sonar you should be able to hear it when you play the keyboard midi controller when the track has focus.

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#14
scook
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 12:48:06 (permalink)
Does a MIDI export of the data recorded in Protools play properly in SONAR? If not, you have an event list to work with. If it does, you might need to consider that Protools is filtering some data. Maybe MIDI-OX might help see what is going on.
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daveny5
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/07 22:33:18 (permalink)
You didn't mention what model your MIDI interface is. Is it connected via USB or Firewire? In Preferences-MIDI-Devices do you see the RME MIDI interface in the Input list?
 
Edit: OK. I see you said it was the Multiface. In Sonar Preferences - MIDI - Input, is it listed as the Input device? 
 
Seems to me that somehow Notes are being filtered either by the RME or by Sonar. You said you checked Preferences-MIDI Playback and Recording and all of those checkboxes were checked. So that points to the RME. I'd uninstall/reinstall the drivers for the RME box. 
 
Are you running 64-bit Sonar X2 and are the RME drivers also 64-bit? Not all 32-bit drivers work with Sonar 64-bit. Also, what version of Windows are you using? 
post edited by daveny5 - 2013/07/07 22:48:29

Dave
Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/11 05:52:28 (permalink)
I can't imagine how it would be the RME seen as it's working into Protools and Sibelius etc (and probably everything else). I'll try see if the RME drivers are 32 bit and if that is conflicting with Sonar 64 bit
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twisted6s
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/11 07:43:23 (permalink)
Check punch record settings, it could be you're trying to record in a region not selected.
post edited by twisted6s - 2013/07/11 07:58:58

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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/18 14:19:15 (permalink)
Back after a week doing other things. Drivers are up to date and it's nothing to do with loop regions or anything.
Here is what I can do:
Start new project
Insert an instrument
Arm/input echo
Hit my footkeys..it plays
Hit my keyboard, it does not.
Hit record - footkeys record. Keyboard does not.
Check the input - it's set to All OMNI which includes everything which is why it's partially working.
Change it to RME Multiface MIDI incase it fixes it (that's backward logic of course as All OMNI includes this)
Try again no luck
Right click the mute button on the track, press remote control learn. See it respond to any key presses on my midi keyboard.
Try to press record again - see that the mute button is responding to my key presses and there are shaded areas in the timeline each time I press the key. Sonar is clearly seeing it.
 
As already stated this is the case whether or not I plug my midi devices into a merger box first an then into the RME single midi input. Sonar WILL NOT PLAY or record midi received from the keyboard even with just a single midi cable in the chain. That isn't the issue anyway as otherwise the keyboard would not be seen to do remote control commands.
 
I also downloaded a demo of Presonus studio one today. No issue there as in Protools as stated. Also composing in Sibelius with no issue. First thing I found in Presonus was a midi monitor which will show a 'live' event list which shows all my keying.
It is clear that Sonar would do the same were the event list live and not a list of things that actually exist in the project.
 
Hopefully this more detailed structured post helps as I can't think what else to do! Seems completely nonsensical and it's driving me nuts :(
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/18 15:59:14 (permalink)
Ok is this a recent problem or has it always been this way?
 
If it's recent, what's been changed/added/removed from your system for the time period you're talking about?
 
Have you by any chance disabled any Windows Services? I know from experience that deleting one or two seemingly innocuous looking services can really screw up your day.

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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/18 16:25:35 (permalink)
Cheers - My old setup was an M Audio Keystation over USB. Works fine, as does this larger Keystation over USB.
At this point I was using the pedalboard MIDI out into the Rme MIDI in and it was working just fine (as it still is, through the merger).
 
Now I'm using MIDI out of the keyboard and merging it with other devices (like the footpedal) into the Rme MIDI in. No luck.
 
What's confusing me most is the fact that Sonar is clearly seeing the events to use as automation but just wont record notes where other DAW's and notation software will.
 
Yes I could plug it in via USB (which I have done as a necessity), but I want to have all my MIDI devices into the same port for various reasons and this simply shouldn't be happening.
 
Windows Services - I'm not sure exactly what that covers but I haven't changed anything since I got this PC from Scan Audio. But likewise, I haven't tried to use a keyboard over MIDI in since then either - but it doesn't make sense to me that my other device is working when all they are both doing is outputting note commands, and as stated it works in other software.
 
 
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twisted6s
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/19 01:24:48 (permalink)
I'm sorry my friend if I'm being redundant, I know you said it has nothing to do with a loop region. I'd like to make certain you're aware that a punch region is NOT the same thing as a loop region. They CAN be combined but the loop region can be different from the punch region (although i can't see the use in that). If you have a selected region for punching it doesn't matter where else you try to record even if you see midi activity, you'll only be able to record in the "punch" region which is designated by the 2 red flags, the "loop" region is designated by the 2 yellow flags (you're template for new a new project may have the punch region preselected). Again I apologize if this is not what you're having a problem with.

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EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/19 11:47:24 (permalink)
Understood buddy - I appreciate your post as you really do have to suggest EVERYTHING when trying to solve such a problem like this.
But yes, that's not the problem. As stated it is the case even in a clean project with no such markers set, and even if that were not the case it would not explain why hits on my pedalboard record but the keyboard doesn't within the same timeline area
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Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/19 12:08:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby EtherealEntity 2013/07/19 15:41:04
Hi EtherealEntity,
 
In situations like this, tech support would have you try a couple of things:
 
1. In C:\Users\<your current user>\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\SONAR X2 Producer delete the following files:
Cakewalk.ini
TTSSEQ.INI
 
This will reset your MIDI devices settings in Sonar so you would need to re-select them in Preferences  - MIDI devices. 
 
2. If that fails, try re-personalization. Start Sonar with the CTRL + SHIFT keys pressed, this will re-copy necessary files and reset some registry keys in case they became corrupted. 
 
Doing these two things should reset everything back to factory default so any settings preventing MIDI input would get wiped and reset. 
 
The only other thing that we do differently that may cause a problem is we send local control off at start of Sonar by default. This could be causing an odd setting to happen on your keyboard controller. To see if that's the case, disconnect your MIDI keyboard controller, start up Sonar, and re-connect it. If you can record from this point, the local control off setting is screwing with the controller. There's an ini flag you can set to turn that off. 
 
Hope this helps.


Thanks!
Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]  
#24
EtherealEntity
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Re: Sonar wont record MIDI that it is registering? 2013/07/19 15:40:56 (permalink)
Hey, deleting those 2 files worked!
THANK YOU!! :D
On the surface that doesn't look any different to having gone into pref and unchecked/checked said devices but it did the job, great!
#25
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