BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
Hello all. I can't seem to figure out how to get things working properly (or at least, the way I would expect them to work), when using an external Lexicon MX400 reverb and the External Insert function in X2. When I use the External Insert, I can set send and return levels as well as what outputs to send from and return too, but I can't seem to get/find the ability to mix the pre-send signal with the post-send signal as you normally do when using a hardware mixer. I'm using an M-Audio Fast Track Pro interface with SPIF in/outs going to and from the MX400 and I see signal going into the MX400's meters, so I know the connectivity to the device is working, but I can't seem to find a way to hear (and adjust) the unaffected signal (I'm running a pre-recorded track through the reverb, fyi) and the effected signal simultaneously. I can hear one or the other when switching between the A/B switch on my interface (it just switches between the analog inputs and the SPDIF digital inputs), but not both. I'm wondering if it has to do with the Input and Output settings for the track itself, but I feel like I'm just not getting something that's probably pretty obvious (but is still frustrating!). Any ideas or anyone who can more thoroughly explain the signal flow and metering in the situation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bob O'Donnell
|
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
- Location: SLC, UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 13:07:11
(permalink)
Hi Bob, I can try and help out, but I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do. Are you looking to set the wet/dry ratio? Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 13:31:27
(permalink)
|
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
- Location: SLC, UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 16:11:52
(permalink)
Hi Bob, Hm...it may be easiest if I describe how I use the External Insert plugin on my system to see if that helps out. I use it in basically one of two ways: 1. As an insert on a track. The E.I. plugin lives in the FX bin on a track, for example a lead vox track. In this case the signal on the track passes entirely through the external unit just like an insert on a mixer channel. Wet/dry is controlled solely on the unit. 2. As a send. Here the E.I. plug lives in the fx bin of a bus and I'd create a send on my hypothetical vox track to that bus. In this case the fx unit is usually set to 100% wet and the amount of the effect is controlled by the send level and the level of the bus. Are you using E.I. in one of those two ways? Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 18:48:04
(permalink)
Dean, Thanks for the response. Essentially, I've been trying to do method number one, but expecting to have results similar to method two, which is probably where the confusion is occurring. There is no output level or mix control on the external reverb, so I would have to mix the wet and dry signal inside Sonar (as you suggest in method 2) and I guess I was expecting all the signals to show up on the same track. So, just to clarify, I would create a separate bus in Sonar. I would select the Output of the track I want to effect to be set to this new bus. I would add the External Insert to this new bus and then control the level of the wet signal there and the dry signal would be the output level of the original track? Also, I notice on buses that there's only a single input/output choice...not one for each. What would I set it to? Also, how do the send return levels in the External Insert fit into the signal flow? I guess I originally assumed that's where I would control the wet/dry mix, but I guess not. Hopefully these questions make sense.... Bob
|
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
- Location: SLC, UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 19:27:43
(permalink)
Hi Bob, That's close but not quite right. Here's what you'd do. 1. On your track you want to affect leave the track output set to your master bus/hardware output. This won't change. 2. Create a bus and label it something that makes sense...reverb or whatever. The bus only has an output. That should be set to your master bus/hardware output. Inputs are assigned from tracks. 3. On the track you'd like to affect create a send (in the mixer right click the send area of the channel and choose the bus you just created in step 2 as the destination). 4. Insert the E.I. plugin on the bus and configure it (set send/return, levels and latency calc). If you insert this before routing any audio to the bus the E.I. plugin won't do the latency calculation. Done. Now you can change the wet level with the send level on the track. Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 19:51:31
(permalink)
OK...got it. I'll give that a try tonight at home...thanks!
|
phrygiann
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 137
- Joined: 2009/09/01 13:56:32
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/17 19:56:36
(permalink)
Try to check manual or the UI for fast track pro if it allows to work when using analog input and SPDIF at the same time.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; AMD Phenom™ II quad-core processor 820; 8GB DDR3 SDRAM; 3.1GHz oc'd; 1TB hard drive; 1 TB 2nd hdrive, 1 TB usb 3.0 external HD. Roland Quad-capture, Casio PX-310; senheisser MK-4, Shure SM-58; Senheisser HD 380 pro, krk rokit6. Subaru forester 2012.
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/18 01:05:33
(permalink)
Dean, Thanks. This does work, but I'm kind of surprised the meters on the main audio track don't register. You can see the meters on the inserted bus and on the master, but not the original track, which seems odd. Anyway, from an audio/audible perspective, this does the trick. Bob O'Donnell
|
pianodano
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1160
- Joined: 2004/01/11 18:54:38
- Location: Va Beach Virginia
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/18 01:15:27
(permalink)
Any chance that you have the original track "RECORD" enabled ? Track meters won't display playback level if it is.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
|
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
- Location: SLC, UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/18 09:54:24
(permalink)
Hi Bob, Something's not right there. Inserting an FX send shouldn't do anything to the meters of the track. Check to make sure that you're not record armed like Danny suggested and if it's still not working I'd call tech support. Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/18 12:07:45
(permalink)
|
BobOD
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20
- Joined: 2009/08/18 23:38:49
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing Main and Effected Signal with External Insert and Outboard Reverb
2013/07/20 12:17:02
(permalink)
Finally figured out the meter issue. I had accidentally select the input of the playback channel to one of the interface's inputs so it was looking for signal there. Once I switched it to off, meters for both the dry and wet signals worked as expected. Now if I could just figure out the VST plug-in issue with my Lexicon MX400, I could actually achieve what I was shooting for in the first place.... It crashes immediately on startup. Of course, Sonar did warn me that it might be incompatible. It give the load failure reason reported as MAIN CALL. Any possible solutions for that?
|