aglewis723
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Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
Hello Everyone, If I am ready for the final mix of a song, should I mix down the softsynths first to audio tracks before continuing with the mix/master process? Thank You, Adam
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...wicked
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 16:08:46
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I would. I usually bounce everything down and then do all my mix processing on the audio itself. For me, having all my tracks as audio makes it easier for me to manage and put together a mix, since it's apples to apples with everything being audio. I archive and hide all the MIDI at that point and only go back to it if there's an edit that requires retooling the MIDI. Also, if the project ever goes kablooey, you still have the raw audio tracks to rebuild the whole thing.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:08:57
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I don't. I keep everything live & in Midi because I often like to go back and add/change parts. One concession i will make in a busy project is simply to freeze the synths - not the the tracks, the synths. This way I too will be working with purely audio tracks, and if I DO want to change something, then a quick unfreeze/edit/refreeze is a very quick workaround - and it's quicker than bouncing.
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aglewis723
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:10:48
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Bristol,
Shouldn't all edits/changes musically be done before the mix process? Thanks, Adam
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:13:53
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Not in my world...... In a perfect world maybe, but I never approach Sonar with a complete song in my head, so I compose/record/mix simultaneously
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jb101
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:14:05
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Bristol_Jonesey I don't. I keep everything live & in Midi because I often like to go back and add/change parts. One concession i will make in a busy project is simply to freeze the synths - not the the tracks, the synths.This way I too will be working with purely audio tracks, and if I DO want to change something, then a quick unfreeze/edit/refreeze is a very quick workaround - and it's quicker than bouncing.
Same here, Colin. The only other time I'll freeze (a synth, not track) is if it has random elements, e.g. a pad that changes randomly over time.
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aglewis723
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:19:32
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Bristol_Jonesey Not in my world...... In a perfect world maybe, but I never approach Sonar with a complete song in my head, so I compose/record/mix simultaneously
Shouldn't you compose/record, THEN mix? Shouldn't the "song" musically be done before the mix?
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...wicked
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 17:33:58
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It's a matter of preference. Personally I like to separate the composition and mix processes for the sake of sanity. Not that I won't go back and add/edit after I've started mixing if it calls for it but for me it makes a clean workflow to be able to say "okay, the song is written, now I'm going to mix it." It helps organize my little brain.
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jb101
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 18:29:30
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aglewis723
Bristol_Jonesey Not in my world...... In a perfect world maybe, but I never approach Sonar with a complete song in my head, so I compose/record/mix simultaneously
Shouldn't you compose/record, THEN mix? Shouldn't the "song" musically be done before the mix?
A mix engineer may well re-record parts, or add parts, during the mix. For example, sometimes I find, whilst mixing a song, that I cannot get a piano part to sit well with a guitar part. Simply shifting one part up or down (using a different chord inversion) is enough to stop one masking the other. If I re-amp a guitar part to sit better in the mix, it might then affect another part differently, so being able to edit a MIDI part becomes useful.
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aglewis723
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 18:39:07
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jb101
aglewis723
Bristol_Jonesey Not in my world...... In a perfect world maybe, but I never approach Sonar with a complete song in my head, so I compose/record/mix simultaneously
Shouldn't you compose/record, THEN mix? Shouldn't the "song" musically be done before the mix?
A mix engineer may well re-record parts, or add parts, during the mix. For example, sometimes I find, whilst mixing a song, that I cannot get a piano part to sit well with a guitar part. Simply shifting one part up or down (using a different chord inversion) is enough to stop one masking the other. If I re-amp a guitar part to sit better in the mix, it might then affect another part differently, so being able to edit a MIDI part becomes useful.
Even that stuff technically "should" be done in the tracking phase... it's still musical edits, no? I could be wrong, or maybe there is no stinkin' rules, its music for God's sake :)
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jb101
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 19:45:59
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Real world example: I have spent the last year writing/recording an album of original material, but have been struggling to find the right singer. I have recorded all the instrument parts, with me singing guide vocal parts. When (if!) I find the right singer, I will have to mix the instrument parts around his/her voice. Being able to change the sounds/voicing to suit the timbre of their voice will be a godsend.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 20:50:33
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I always leave myself the ability to unfreeze and modify midi data, as well. I have 32 GB of memory, so I never really run into problems, Bob Bone
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/15 23:53:16
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☄ Helpfulby arlen2133 2013/07/19 02:01:07
There are those amazing planners who can see the end result even before they start tracking. They are usually famous as a result. It probably helps if it's not your stuff and the tracks come more or less complete along with a demo of intent. I suspect most of us who do originals, do a lot of improvising along the way and we approach from any angle. For me, often songs start from scratch tracks to be added to and thrown away and they can take shape or change from any point in the process. Often the hardest part is knowing when the damn thing's done.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 04:04:45
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Sir Paul McCartney used to hang on to song snippets and glue them together - such as Band On the Run. The piano ending to Layla was written and recorded and stuck on the end after the first part was done. The best advice I can offer is to follow your own light, and try not to run out of batteries. Bob Bone
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wizard71
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 04:37:23
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No need. Think flexibility is the key to producing the best result.
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 09:02:44
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aglewis723 Even that stuff technically "should" be done in the tracking phase... it's still musical edits, no? I could be wrong, or maybe there is no stinkin' rules, its music for God's sake :)
You are indeed too focused on rules. Forget about them. Do whatever is necessary to get a good song. Obviously it also depends on how you record your music. When you are recording a band then you might record everything live in one go: then you will indeed mix when all recording is done. But even then you may discover something is missing or wrong during mixing and you may have to record another part anyway. I myself make music on my own so I record one track after another: in order to play and arrange and record a new track, the existing tracks HAVE to be mixed to a certain extent otherwise it may sometimes be impossible to do it well. So it all depends on the workflow for a specific project. But even then: forget about the rules: there aren't any (in this regard).
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konradh
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 10:45:02
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I used to bounce but now I click the Include Live Audio in the export box. I tend to freeze the CPU and memory killers like Hollywood Strings, Dimension Strings (if I have loaded a lot of articulations), but let other things like drums, bass, RealGuitar, etc. play live. I often record external synths before mixing because I fear something will break.
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californiamusic
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 11:14:09
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I'm with "...Wicked", everything is audio at time of mix. You have total control with EQing, Compressing, etc. that way. And if you need to change something with a softsynth, you always keep the frozen synth track (or midi track) in an archive folder. ; )
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joden
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 14:02:22
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But the point is - a "frozen track" IS audio. But it also has the HUGE advantage of one being able to easily edit a change or a make a fix, change key etc etc, without the need to punch in record or go into arcane audio editing tools et al, which don't often work all that well and you are forced to go through another time-consuming and frustrating re-recording session, which takes even more away from the inspiration one started with Just one tip though, by default Sonar disables the efx bin when a track is frozen. You do need to re-enable it by right clicking on the bin
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MarioD
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 14:03:28
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californiamusic I'm with "...Wicked", everything is audio at time of mix. You have total control with EQing, Compressing, etc. that way. And if you need to change something with a softsynth, you always keep the frozen synth track (or midi track) in an archive folder. ; )
FWIW-this is exactly how I do it, audio only for mixing.
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joden
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 14:05:02
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I repeat a frozen track IS audio!!!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 15:57:19
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joden But the point is - a "frozen track" IS audio. But it also has the HUGE advantage of one being able to easily edit a change or a make a fix, change key etc etc, without the need to punch in record or go into arcane audio editing tools et al, which don't often work all that well and you are forced to go through another time-consuming and frustrating re-recording session, which takes even more away from the inspiration one started with  Just one tip though, by default Sonar disables the efx bin when a track is frozen. You do need to re-enable it by right clicking on the bin 
This is why I NEVER freeze tracks but I will ALWAYS freeze synths. You freeze the synth, and you can choose exactly what you want to be frozen:
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joden
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 16:46:24
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oops  my bad Bristol J - I MEANT frozen synth...I just sorta assumed folks would understand when I typed it as track.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Bounce Softsynths to Audio Before Export?
2013/07/16 16:56:53
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Cool
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