Midi Drum Recording

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dachay2tnr
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2013/07/27 11:48:45 (permalink)

Midi Drum Recording

Last night I tried to record a set of Roland electronic drums to Sonar via MIDI.  I set the input to MIDI 10.  When we finished recording, everything was fine except there was no snare drum.  Kick, cymbals, toms, all recorded fine, but no notation for the snare.  We played back the track feeding the Roland kit, and same thing.  All the drum sounds were there except the snare.
 
Seems to me that the problem revolves around the snare being routed somewhere that isn't being recognized by Sonar.  We switched the Roland to a different preset drum kit, and using the different kit we were able to get a snare sound.
 
It's quite possible (and maybe even likely) that the issue is with the Roland.  However, I am not the drummer and I am not familiar with the Roland "brain." 
 
Anyway, any thoughts on how to resolve this?  Obviously we could use a different "drum kit," but most of the presets sound pretty terrible.  This, of course, effects the drummer's playing.  Most of us don't play well when we don't like the sound of our instrument.  So we want to use the "kit" he has customized, but can't figure out how to get the snare to record.
 
Any thoughts.  Sonar issue or Roland issue?  Could drum mapping help (I am not using it at present), or would the fact that we're apparently not getting a snare signal present an issue for mapping as well?
 
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.
 
FWIW, I am an old-timer still using Sonar 6.2.  :)
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    scook
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 12:02:25 (permalink)
    If the drum kit is sending notes that are not mapped properly for the synth, they can be fixed at on either end. The Drum Map Manager it the tool on the on the SONAR end of things. There may be an existing drum map for the synth you are using. Copying and modifying an existing drum map is the fastest way on the SONAR side.
    #2
    bitflipper
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 12:36:32 (permalink)
    Normally, all the drums will be mapped to the same MIDI channel, but perhaps the snare is configured for a different channel. Try recording with SONAR's input selector to OMNI instead. That way, even if the snare is on a channel other than 10 you'll still record it.
     
    Another possibility is the snare has been mapped to a nonstandard MIDI note. After recording, open the PRV and look at the track data. Click on each of the notes you see there and make sure a sound is heard. If you find one that makes no sound, or that makes an unexpected sound, that might be your missing snare.


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    dachay2tnr
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 12:51:16 (permalink)
    Another possibility is the snare has been mapped to a nonstandard MIDI note. After recording, open the PRV and look at the track data. Click on each of the notes you see there and make sure a sound is heard. If you find one that makes no sound, or that makes an unexpected sound, that might be your missing snare.

    I need to revisit it, as last night was frustrating.  We tried several things, and my memory is a little unclear as to what we did and didn't do.
     
    I did look in PRV and could not find a note that corresponded to the snare.  At one point we tried watching the PRV WHILE recording.  We could see red notes showing up whenever the snare was struck.  However, when we pressed stop, all those notes vanished!
     
    That sounds to me like your suggestion that it is being mapped to a non-standard MIDI note.  However, I'm pretty sure I tried switching the input to MIDI omni, and still didn't get anything.  However, as I said, it was late and I was frustrated.
     
    I'll try it again today or tomorrow and pay closer attention to what is happening.  I guess the one question I have for now is, is there a way to control the midi routing from the Roland kit?  In other words, can I tell the Roland what note to send the snare signal on?  Because whatever note is being sent now is not being understood by Sonar.
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    pianodano
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 13:57:05 (permalink)
    If midi yoke runs on whatever operating system you are using (my guess is xp and it will run on it), try grabbing that and it will tell you what is being output by the Roland brain.
     
    Because you SAID it is a custom drum configuration -
    You should be able to look at the snare note# in the Roland brain and change it. I will almost bet it is probably a note that is in the high nineties to hundred range although I have seen snare note in the first octave too. Roland loved to do that stuff with their old drum machines. I really have no idea how many octaves the piano roll covers as I don't have Sonar on this laptop. Never had a reason to figure it out. Somebody will be along that will know. But I do not believe the Roland brain would send out anything higher than 127. Noor Sonar record any notes of higher note numbers tha that. 
    post edited by pianodano - 2013/07/27 14:07:22

    Best,

    Danny

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    dachay2tnr
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 14:00:00 (permalink)
    Update:
    I open up the software today, and for some reason the snare is now working.  It works with the input set to Midi 10 or Midi Omni.  Go figure.
     
    The only remaining issue, and it's a minor detail, the snare is being routed to a key labeled "metronome bell."  I think I can fix that using the drum mapper.  But even if I can't, I can live with it as is.  The biggest issue was getting the damn thing to record and playback, which for whatever reason, is working today.
     
    Thank for your input anyway, gentlemen.
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    pianodano
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 14:08:29 (permalink)
    dachay2tnr
    Update:
    I open up the software today, and for some reason the snare is now working.  It works with the input set to Midi 10 or Midi Omni.  Go figure.
     
    The only remaining issue, and it's a minor detail, the snare is being routed to a key labeled "metronome bell."  I think I can fix that using the drum mapper.  But even if I can't, I can live with it as is.  The biggest issue was getting the damn thing to record and playback, which for whatever reason, is working today.
     
    Thank for your input anyway, gentlemen.


    You can change that description in the map to be whatever you want.
     

    Best,

    Danny

    Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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    scook
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 14:13:46 (permalink)
    Yes, it would take a drum map. I do not believe there is any ability to change the names provided by the PRV note names dialog.
    #8
    dachay2tnr
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 14:24:15 (permalink)
    Because you SAID it is a custom drum configuration -
    You should be able to look at the snare note# in the Roland brain and change it. I will almost bet it is probably a note that is in the high nineties to hundred range although I have seen snare note in the first octave too. Roland loved to do that stuff with their old drum machines. I really have no idea how many octaves the piano roll covers as I don't have Sonar on this laptop. Never had a reason to figure it out. Somebody will be along that will know. But I do not believe the Roland brain would send out anything higher than 127. Noor Sonar record any notes of higher note numbers tha that.

    I'll have our drummer look and see if he can change that in the Roland brain.  Our problem is that I know little about the Roland, and he knows little about MIDI.  :)
     
    FWIW, the snare is being routed to a very low note.  Bb2 if I recall correctly.  I still don't know where it was going to last night nor why we couldn't pick it up.  It could be a partial result of the Johnny Walker Black, but I claim some immunity since it was still early in the evening. :)
     
    Thanks again, guys (or gals?).
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    pianodano
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    Re: Midi Drum Recording 2013/07/27 18:16:41 (permalink)
    Here are the GM assignments for percussion - Every note not assigned (notes available= 0 - 127)  is available for use by manufacturers and users. PERCUSSION NOTE #
     
    I just downloaded the TD10 manual from Roland's site. The midi data transmit and receive setup and implementation starts on page 122.
     
    post edited by pianodano - 2013/07/27 18:26:37

    Best,

    Danny

    Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
    #10
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