Strange linked clips behaviour

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ston
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2013/06/30 07:39:01 (permalink)

Strange linked clips behaviour

Drag 'n' drop copying of linked clips (I've been using step sequencer clips) doesn't work as I'd expect.  I've found a very simple way of reproducing the problem and would like to solicit some feedback from the forums before submitting a BUG report to Cakewalk; it may be that I'm not understanding the options and behaviour correctly.  I'm also creating this thread as it may help others who are having similar issues.
 
Setup:
Create a new, normal project.
Insert Session Drummer 3 on a simple instrument track, load a drum kit.
In properties->editing, ensure 'Copy entire linked clips as linked clips' is checked and 'Ask this every time' is unchecked.
Create a basic 4-beat step sequencer pattern: bass drum on 1 & 3, snare on 2 & 4, fill closed hihats every 2.
CTRL-drag the clip to create a new measure to the right of the original.
Both clips should now display '[2]' in their top left corners; they are linked clips.
Unlink the clips using the right-click context menu.
The '[2]' disappears from both clips; they should now be unlinked.
Edit the second pattern, change the hihats to be off-beat rather than on-beat hits.
Open the first pattern and play it, either using the transport or the step sequencer play button.
For me, even though the pattern displayed is clearly the one with the on-beat hihat hits, it's the second pattern which plays.
This doesn't seem right to me.
Delete the second pattern.
If not already displayed, open up the step sequencer for the first pattern.
As before, it's the pattern with the off-beat hihats which is playing, even though the displayed pattern show on-beat hihats.
Delete the first pattern
 
Go back to preferences->editing, this time uncheck 'Copy entire linked clips as linked clips'.
Re-create the original first pattern in the step sequencer (the one with the on-beat hihat hits).
As before, CTRL-drag the first pattern to create a second measure to the right.
For me, as happened previously, both patterns display '[2]' in their top left corners - they are linked clips even though the editing preferences have been changed to not create linked clips.
Unlink the clips using the right-click context menu.
Edit the second pattern as before so that the hihats are off-beat.
Play both patterns.
This time, the patterns are genuinely unlinked and different.
 
In summary, there seems to be two issues here:
 
1. Unlinking step sequencer clips which are linked due to the 'Copy entire linked clips as linked clips' editing preferences, and which have been copied using CTRL-drag does not unlink the clips.  In addition, the information which the step sequencer displays for a clip may not correspond to what is actually played.
 
2. Copying clips using CTRL-drag with the 'Copy entire linked clips as linked clips' editing preferences disabled still creates linked clips.  These clips can be properly unlinked, however.
 
- - -
 
I've just had a quick look at the above issues when using the piano roll to create and edit the clips, as opposed to the step sequencer.  In this case, the behaviour I'm seeing is a little different but is consistent whether the clips are converted to groove clips or not.  When the clip is CTRL-drag copied as a linked clip (as configured in the editing preferences), the clips are linked but do not display the '[2]' in their top left corners, so it's hard (if not impossible) to see that the link exists.
However, when the clips are unlinked using the right-click context menu, they are correctly unlinked.
 
If the clips are copied as unlinked clips, then they are genuinely unlinked after the copy.
 
- - -
 
As I mentioned, it may be that I'm not understanding the expected behaviour when CTRL-drag copying step sequencer clips, but I've read the manual pages relating to the step sequencer and haven't found anything that indicates the above behaviour.
 
I'd be really interested if other people see the same behaviour as myself.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
 [edit]
 
Just noticed the forums have decided not to display my signature, which contains:
 
Sonar Producer X2 (Patch X2a), Sonic Core Scope 5, Windows 7 64-bit
 
 
 
post edited by ston - 2013/06/30 11:59:50
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/07/31 09:04:15 (permalink)
    I'm 'celebrating' this post's first 'month birthday' with a bump :-)
     
    Still nothing from Cakewalk either after submitting the above information in a bug report.  To those who have done so before - did you receive some form of email confirmation from them?
     
    Anybody got time to create one bar of music to check this?  TIA.
     
     
    #2
    Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/07/31 10:25:48 (permalink)
    Hi Ston,
     
    There are 2 different clip links that are going on here, SS link clips (represented by the number on the clip header) and standard clip link. 
     
    Step Sequencer clips always copy with their own linking method separate from clip link. However, standard clip linking will operate on SS clips. In the scenario you describe above, to get independent editing of SS clips with clip link on do the following: In the Right click context menu, choose Unlink Step sequencer clips AND, Unlink to unlink Linked clips. 
     
    If you are enabling "Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips" just for Step Sequencer clips, this is unnecessary. To avoid confusion, I recommend disabling Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips in Preferences - Editing. To quickly link non-Step Sequencer clips, use Paste Special from the Edit menu. This gives you a "Link to Original Clips" option which is standard clip linking. 


    Thanks!
    Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]  
    #3
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:18 (permalink)
    Hi Daniel
     
    Thanks for the reply!  Much appreciated.  Out of interest, what was the thinking behind having two forms of linking potentially affecting step sequencer clips?
     
    Also, although I do understand your point, if the SS clips are still linked through their SS-link (not their normal clip-link which I remove), why does the UI display 2x different clips (in my example, one with on-beat hihats and one with off-beat hihats).  Shouldn't the UI show the same clip if they are still linked?
     
    Also part II, why is it that using the normal-clip unlinking to unlink the SS clips that were copied with linking turned off (so only their SS-link was operating) remove the SS-link?
     
    It seems to me that everything would be a lot more straightforward and allow the software to behave in a far more consistent and comprehensible fashion if you stuck to one form of linking that applied to all types of clips.
     
    #4
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:20 (permalink)
    dup 1
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:40:55
    #5
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:20 (permalink)
    dup 2...
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:41:06
    #6
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:21 (permalink)
    dup 3!
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:41:19
    #7
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:28 (permalink)
    dup 4  (no way to delete posts?)
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:41:47
    #8
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:19 (permalink)
    dup V (roman numerals mode)
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:42:03
    #9
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:21 (permalink)
    dup 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6!  Ahahahhhaaa!  (Count von Count mode)
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:42:28
    #10
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 05:30:28 (permalink)
    dup the last
    post edited by ston - 2013/08/01 05:43:00
    #11
    Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/01 11:18:41 (permalink)
    Hi Ston,
     
    The part about the display and playback, I could not reproduce. I suspect some confusion over what is getting updated in the PRV, but I'm not really sure. In the meantime, I think your experience with SS clips would be better just turning linked clips off and using the default behavior of SS clips linking on their own.


    Thanks!
    Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]  
    #12
    ston
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    Re: Strange linked clips behaviour 2013/08/02 08:20:58 (permalink)
    Thanks Dan.  I'll probably just re-enable the 'copy choice' dialog, it's not too much hassle having it pop up when copying clips about.
     
    (Hopefully this post will submit, getting some weird forum errors again today...)
    #13
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