Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :(

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dmitche3
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2013/08/12 09:02:46 (permalink)

Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :(

I've been trying to resolve latency issues with Sonar LE to no avail.  I have tried both the MME and ASIO drivers, including installing the ASIO beta drivers but no go.  
 
Here are the strange things.  First, I have NO LATENCY issues with FL Studio 10!  No problems with that.  Second, regardless of what I set ASIO settings to, and regardless of what slider values I set the MME buffers and such to there is NO EFFECT on latency.  Very strange.  It doesn't get better or worse setting the buffers to the maximum or minimum.  It's almost as if they either don't work.  I see that ASIO is showing various latency numbers on the screen that can range from a round trip of 13 ms to 40ms and worse.
 
So, I'm starting to think that there is something that I'm missing and perhaps that there is another setting somewhere in Sonar that needs to be tweaked.  CPU usage isn't an issue, nor memory or any of that.  As I stated, FL Studio 10 works fine.
 
I would like to get this to work rather than just calling the software crapware. 
 
Thanks in advance for any assistance, other than people who can only tell me that it's a virus. :)
#1

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    57Gregy
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 09:32:08 (permalink)
    What sound card or audio interface are you using?
    What operating system are you using?
    Is it 32-bit or 64-bit?
    Which SONAR LE is it?
     
    "that there is another setting somewhere in Sonar that needs to be tweaked."
     
    So, what are your settings now? 

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
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    #2
    dmitche3
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 09:34:40 (permalink)
    Addendum:  I'm recording from my Juno Gi.  This synth sends MIDI and Audio via USB.  Strange thing is then when I send an audio along along with the MIDI from the Juno Gi ( with playing along with the audio ) the MIDI is showing latency.  
     
    Perhaps there is a way to sync the audio by delaying it?  Any ideas?
    #3
    dmitche3
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 09:54:59 (permalink)
    Thanks Greg,
    I'm using Windows 7 32-bit, Sonar LE X1.  The sound card is a built-in "Realtek High-Defintion Audio" is all that the device manager states.
     
    I reinstalled ASIO for a second time after realizing that Cakewalk was still using the previous installation.  I should have uninstalled the old ones first. :(
    Anyways,  I do get SOME change by changing the ASIO buffers now.  They are now set at the mimimum 64 samples for buffer size.
    The Latency Compensation is set to 0 for both input and output.  Moving it to the maximum samples didn't help.
     
    Hardware Buffer is turned off, along with Always resample and Force WDM driver to 16 bit.
     
    In my addendum, I said that I recorded the audio and out of sync MIDI, that was using the MME drivers.  I had changed it back in one of many attempts and forgot to reset to the ASIO drivers.
     
    Cakewalk is showing that ASIO is showing input latency of 1.5ms, 0ms for output, and the total round trip then is stil 1.5ms.  Yet there is still a good 1/4 to 1/2 second delay.  THe latency number is changing on the Cakewalk screen, there just isn't any actual changes to the problem.
    Thanks.
     
     
    #4
    dmitche3
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 10:22:43 (permalink)
    BTW, my FL Studio settings IS NOT using the ASIO. I thought that they were but their using the MME drivers without an issue.  The ASIO drivers are working on FL Studio (I rechecked it) and that software also shows a 2ms latency, same as Cakewalk.
     
    The settings in FL Studio 10 using MME are:
     
    13ms with buffer size at 560smp, offset 50% giving a little bit of latency but livable with.  I had better but I've been messing with all of the settings with this Cakewalk issue.
    Use Polling, use hardware buffer, and  use 32bit buffer are all on, along with multithread options, and smart disable.
    Also, safeoverloads and  running at highest priority.
     
     
    #5
    57Gregy
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 10:30:33 (permalink)
    The Juno should be used as your audio interface. It's performance should be superior to the RealTek.
    Go to http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1126/downloads/ and download and install the latest updates and drivers for your operating system, if you haven't already done that.
    If the RealTek does have actual ASIO drivers, you need to deselect them and select the Roland ASIO driver instead. If the RealTek is using ASIO4All drivers, you'll need to uninstall ASIO4All before you can use the Roland ASIO drivers.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #6
    dmitche3
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/12 10:53:24 (permalink)
    Thanks Greg.  I did that.  In the process of reinstalling the ASIO drivers I had forgotten that I had installed the Juno Gi Drivers. :(  I uninstalled both the ASIO and JUNO Gi drivers and reinstalled just the Juno Gi.  Unfortunately, no differences.  Well, other than I'm back to seeing the Juno Gi screen when I display the "ASIO drivers" from Cakewalk, which is where I started from.
     
    The best that I can get is 10ms using those drivers. :(
     
    BTW, Thanks Greg!
     
    I think that I'm about to call it a day on Cakewalk as I've had my fill of it. lol.  Now for some non-stress DLNA server programming fun. :(
    post edited by dmitche3 - 2013/08/12 11:19:08
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    spacealf
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/14 19:32:40 (permalink)
    Have you got a "time" setting in your MIDI track?
    Have you tried adjusting that to delay the midi to the audio track?
     
    10ms is 10 thousandths of a second.
    Not much at all but can be annoying, but MIDI can vary by that much if not more in playing a song in midi - not editing midi where everything is exactly like what I call a robot recording.
    I guess I think no one plays that perfect if playing a song.
     
    post edited by spacealf - 2013/08/14 19:35:48

     
     
    #8
    dmitche3
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/17 10:59:18 (permalink)
    Time setting?  Where would I find something like that?  I'm trying to record live.  If you are referring to a previously recorded MIDI, then no, that is not the problem.
     
    As for what the delay in ms shows is not what I'm getting.  I see anywhere from 2ms to 13ms depending on whether I'm using the ASIO drivers provided by Roland, ASIO Beta 2.x, or ASIO production drivers.
     
    I've given up on Calkwalk.  It just won't work. I'll stick with FL Studio 10 and upgrade it.  AS I'll restate, there ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH LATENCY with FL STUDIO 10. :(  Very strange.  And that is using the MME drivers!  Under Cakewalk the latency appears to be nearly the same using MME, or any of the ASIO drivers.
     
    #9
    spacealf
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    Re: Latency issues or what?: posts are no help; Cakewalk is no help :( 2013/08/17 15:12:36 (permalink)
    Not in my Sonar 7 software. Using ASiO I get (all latency) at 2.2ms (2 thousandths of a second) with MME with the same recording speed and bit depth (44100 - 24 bit) my latency using MME drivers in Windows would be 30ms at the lowest and only go up way up to be safe in recording (are you applying in the Audio menu Item of Options? clicking "Apply") and what surprised me was with Windows WDM/KS at the fastest it can be is 2.2ms, but to be safe that can go all the way to 383.4ms or something like that - way off for latency. MME drivers would be even worse, because if you tried to use the fastest latency with the WDM/KS or MME drivers, it probably would stop the program or have so many dropouts it never continue.
     
    ????
    Before you set the Audio in Cakewalk (Sonar) you have to "Apply" the settings first to really see what it is going to do.
     
    According to RME and their units, it takes 3ms just to get through the electronics of the recording gear (in this case it is RME Babyface). There is no faster latency that can happen because that is only 3 thousandths of a second to get through the electronics of any electronic unit. Then there is the computer recording on, and that takes another (in my case) 2.2ms at least.
     
    I know there is that which happens, because I been through it all before, but not lately, because all I will use is ASIO drivers that make all audio record and heard the same while recording. Granted all I got is an second generation I3 Intel computer, but the samples offset for all of that is 151 samples, but ASIO puts it all together so the offset is 0 samples when recording and listening at the same time (with multiple tracks to be done.)
     
    But I never used audio with MIDI before either one or the other, but in a MIDI track in Sonar there is "time" if you expand the track and look at everything.
    (each track for MIDI).
     
    I guess I have not done more than two tracks in a recording at one time ever (left and right) and when done, I put it together and mix it out of Sonar or whatever.
     
     
     
     
    post edited by spacealf - 2013/08/17 15:22:43

     
     
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