gprokap
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For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
. . . regarding editing? I've just recently upgraded from 8.5 to Platinum and I've gotten most stuff down, my usual method of normal tightening (de-humanizng) multi-track drums was absolutely painful in Platinum. I had to go back to 8.5 to finish my edits which isn't that big of a deal at this time but eventually I won't have 8.5 on my PC anymore. My "old" workflow was to add the transients from the kick and snare to the pool, split the multi-track drums at the pool transients, quantize and adjust manually what needed adjusting. Trying to do this in Platinum was painful as this creates thousands if not 10s of thousands of objects, scrolling through in 8.5 is smooth (decent rig, 2015 I7 CPU, lost of RAM, decent video card, dual SSDs in RAID-0) but on Platinum it was slow and choppy. So what are other people doing? I'm free and open to new ideas if they are better than mine. I've looked online and all the YouTube tutorials are more clumsy than my current method. EDIT: Please only reply if you actually know what I'm talking about and have some actual useful information. Thank you.
post edited by gprokap - May 24, 16 6:22 PM
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vanceen
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 4:31 PM
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I've been doing a lot of drum tracking over the last couple of years; I'm still no expert but I've learned a couple of things re: editing.
My first rule is to always use a click. Sometimes people resist it, because they are such creative flowers <g>, but it's worth insisting. On top of that, if the drums are getting recorded by themselves (as opposed to a rhythm section all at once), I'll first create a simple, solid bass and guitar (or bass and piano) track that is lined up perfectly with the click, and let the drummer record to that along with the click.
I have never had any success using the wholesale quantizing tools with drums. Perhaps it's my incompetence, but I always get unsatisfactory results that way. That applies especially to AudioSnap, but cutting the clips at transients and quantizing clip start times isn't reliable for me either, IF I try to do most or all of the drum track at one time.
Instead, I listen to the drums along with the scratch tracks and only fix them when I hear a problem. If something needs fixing, it's usually easier for me to split and realign tracks (using Selection Grouping), as opposed to digging into other takes looking for a better performance. I'm a huge fan of comping for vocals and other instruments, but it doesn't help me much with drums. Maybe this is partly because the drummer I usually work with is very good, but I also found that take selection wasn't too helpful when editing my own drumming (which is not very good).
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 5:11 PM
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vanceen
I have never had any success using the wholesale quantizing tools with drums. Perhaps it's my incompetence, but I always get unsatisfactory results that way. That applies especially to AudioSnap . . .
It's not you, it's audio-snap. Audiosnap's detection algorithm isn't that great and if the signal was compressed going to "tape" it'll often not detect the transients right and will put the marker in the wrong spot. My workaround for that is to clone the kick and snare, apply Slate's Trigger to the clones and use Audiosnap on those tracks. For whatever reason Audiosnap read those a hell of a lot better. And you just can't quantize a whole song and have it work, it's best done a section at a time. I've had a ton of success with this, in 8.5. Looking for WORKING ideas with Plat.
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jeff oliver
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 5:24 PM
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Hello. Did you know in Platinum you can record the actual click track? You could use that as a guide perhaps?
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 6:04 PM
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jeff oliver
Hello. Did you know in Platinum you can record the actual click track? You could use that as a guide perhaps?
Of course i knew that. do you have any actual useful information regarding the topic I'm discussing? If not why did you bother posting?
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bitman
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 6:42 PM
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When I ran my little studio I had 8 track dedicated to the drums and recorded the band live.
If the band was good the recording (timing) was good. If not, then not. I was a recording enginner
not they're Mr. fix it.
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jeff oliver
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 6:44 PM
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Razorwit
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 6:52 PM
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Hi gprokap,
I record trap kits all the time. Sadly, my experience with audio-snap across multiple tracks has been underwhelming, so these days I export out to another product for drum edits and the pull them back into Sonar to finish mixing (it's kinda bad form to talk about competing products on the Sonar site, so PM me if you want details).
One other thought, though I've not tried this, if you have Melodyne Studio you might try pulling your drum tracks into that. Like I said, I haven't had the chance to try it yet but it may be an option.
Dean
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ampfixer
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 7:29 PM
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☄ Helpfulby clintmartin May 24, 16 7:51 PM
gprokap
jeff oliver
Hello. Did you know in Platinum you can record the actual click track? You could use that as a guide perhaps?
Of course i knew that.
do you have any actual useful information regarding the topic I'm discussing? If not why did you bother posting?
At the risk of getting banned, I have to say you are a dick. The guy WAS trying to help.
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bluzdog
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 8:00 PM
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gprokap
jeff oliver
Hello. Did you know in Platinum you can record the actual click track? You could use that as a guide perhaps?
Of course i knew that.
do you have any actual useful information regarding the topic I'm discussing? If not why did you bother posting?
That was a little harsh don't ya think? This is actually new since aux tracks came out a few months ago. He was trying to be helpful, adios. Rocky
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 8:02 PM
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ampfixer
At the risk of getting banned, I have to say you are a dick. The guy WAS trying to help.
I am a dick and he was not helpful. Neither were you so why did you bother to reply if you had no useful information to contribute?
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 8:06 PM
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Razorwit
One other thought, though I've not tried this, if you have Melodyne Studio you might try pulling your drum tracks into that. Like I said, I haven't had the chance to try it yet but it may be an option.
Dean
I did look into Melodyne, issue is you need the $800 version to do multitrack edits. Checked out a bunch of tutorials and it still seems to be not as good of a method as what you can do pretty easily in 8.5 (splitting the tracks into clips on pooled transients, etc . . .)
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listen
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 10:01 PM
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☄ Helpfulby bluzdog May 24, 16 11:46 PM
Somebody needs to eat a "SNICKERS" 
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SuperG
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 11:09 PM
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gprokap
ampfixer
At the risk of getting banned, I have to say you are a dick. The guy WAS trying to help.
I am a dick and he was not helpful.
Neither were you so why did you bother to reply if you had no useful information to contribute?
Neither was the above quoted post, in reference to OP's own request, But at least we've established that he is a <nevermind> 
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BRuys
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 24, 16 11:50 PM
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I record acoustic drums a lot. In the early days of AudioSnap, I was actually able to successfully edit drums to fix slight timing issues. Somewhere on the way to where we are today, AudioSnap got to the point where it just didn't work anymore for me. Only unexpected results, strange selection issues and things outright disappearing were what I got whenever I tried to use it. I now NEVER used AudioSnap. It might be useful for single tracks, but for multi-track drums, it just became something the either doesn't work, or requires training in brain surgery to work. I can't decide if either I'm too dumb to use it, or it's fundamentally useless.
These days, I do use Melodyne to either pick up the timing from drums, or standardize the timing of a recorded drum part. For many of us who have been with Platinum for a year or two, there have been some very cost effective upgrade offers that have got me to the full Studio version quite cheaply.
I'm sorry to report to the OP, that I don't believe there are any tricks to successfully using AS on multi-track drums. I just don't think the tool is really fit for this use anymore. Like the OP, I wouldn't have shelled out $800 for the full version of Melodyne, but have found a much cheaper way to get there via a couple of incremental upgrades. I think if the OP looks into this, he/she may find it's not too expensive to upgrade to the next level and then do it again later to get to Melodyne studio next time.
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Cactus Music
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 1:32 AM
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You could fun with this thread,, but,, naw....
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patm300e
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 6:57 AM
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bitman
When I ran my little studio I had 8 track dedicated to the drums and recorded the band live.
If the band was good the recording (timing) was good. If not, then not. I was a recording enginner
not they're Mr. fix it.
+1
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John T
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 7:21 AM
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 May 25, 16 8:30 AM
gprokap
ampfixer
At the risk of getting banned, I have to say you are a dick. The guy WAS trying to help.
I am a dick and he was not helpful.
Neither were you so why did you bother to reply if you had no useful information to contribute?
You know, we had a thread a month or two ago about multi-track drum editing with audiosnap. I wrote a bunch of stuff in it, and about three or four others also had extremely detailed things to say. There were a few different approaches discussed in great depth. Something tells me you're not going to get that kind of response here. Possibly worth pondering on that.
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Beepster
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 10:34 AM
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Alright... I'll be the "nice" guy. Only switch the Snare and Kick tracks Edit Filter's to Transients. Open the Audiosnap Pallette and reduce the "Threshold" so that only the actual hits you want have Transient Markers on them. You may have to go through and manually remove/add/move markers that are not needed/got missed/were not placed exactly where they should be. THEN add to the Pool and make your splits across the rest of the tracks. I would do this in two steps. Once for the Kick so all the Kick hits cause splits and then again for the Snare. I don't think you can add both to the pool at the same time anyway (not sure) and the result will end up the same (splits at all the kick and snare hits). Also... it doesn't matter what kind of person you are IRL. If you ask politely around here you'll get much more help. PS: The likely reason your project started lagging after the splits was because you bogged down the system with all those microclips. More clips = more strain on the system especially now with all the "Comping" features.
post edited by Beepster - May 25, 16 11:05 AM
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 11:13 AM
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Beepster
PS: The likely reason your project started lagging after the splits was because you bogged down the system with all those microclips. More clips = more strain on the system especially now with all the "Comping" features.
I understand, yet the same system handles this just fine with SONAR 8.5
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Beepster
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 11:19 AM
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gprokap
Beepster
PS: The likely reason your project started lagging after the splits was because you bogged down the system with all those microclips. More clips = more strain on the system especially now with all the "Comping" features.
I understand, yet the same system handles this just fine with SONAR 8.5
But I thought you weren't getting those mountains of unwanted splits? Anyway... Audiosnap used to be next to useless for me in X1-X2. Now in Platinum (since they gave it a bit of an overhaul) it's been working quite well for me. Not perfect but it doesn't choke out my system now nor do I have the problem of transients behaving erraticly. Also be sure to increase your interface buffers when working with audiosnap. You may want to increase your Read/Write buffers in "Preferences" as well because I believe it's pretty drive intensive. You may have increased your buffers in 8.5 but they got knocked back down to the default "256" setting in SPlat.
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gprokap
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 12:09 AM
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Beepster
Also be sure to increase your interface buffers when working with audiosnap. You may want to increase your Read/Write buffers in "Preferences" as well because I believe it's pretty drive intensive. You may have increased your buffers in 8.5 but they got knocked back down to the default "256" setting in SPlat.
Very good idea, I'll check that out tonight. Thank you.
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BRuys
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 25, 16 8:04 PM
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Beepster
But I thought you weren't getting those mountains of unwanted splits?
Anyway... Audiosnap used to be next to useless for me in X1-X2. Now in Platinum (since they gave it a bit of an overhaul) it's been working quite well for me. Not perfect but it doesn't choke out my system now nor do I have the problem of transients behaving erraticly.
Also be sure to increase your interface buffers when working with audiosnap. You may want to increase your Read/Write buffers in "Preferences" as well because I believe it's pretty drive intensive. You may have increased your buffers in 8.5 but they got knocked back down to the default "256" setting in SPlat.
Funny thing is I have found the exact opposite is true. In older versions, AudioSnap had some usability issues, but at least it was stable. I found multi-track drum editing easy in those days. In Platinum, I find it bugs out in the strangest ways to the point where I can't predict what the heck it's gonna do next. I have become so frustrated with how unpredictable it is, I have stopped using it, yet I was a heavy user of it in previous versions. I record all my drums live with 8 tracks as a minimum and I need edits be be phase coherent. If it's working for you guys, maybe a recent update has fixed it and it's time for me to try again?
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maltastudio
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Re: For those of you who do full bands with accoustic drums, what's your workflow . . .
May 26, 16 2:06 AM
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I used to have this guys problem a long time ago but since i started completley replacing the kick and the snare with Addictive drums and mixed it with the rest it wasn`t a problem anymore.
I take 2 midi tracks from kick and snare,quantize do what ever i want with midi and straight to addictive drums.
I can leave the velocity touch of the drummer,the speed if its good or else if its a bad drummer computerise everything.
It`s not a long proces if you have a template always ready.
Peace
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