Kudos to Trent Reznor!

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Rain
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2013/09/03 18:20:22 (permalink)

Kudos to Trent Reznor!

Something I read a couple of days ago. Apparently, the new album will be available in two versions: a standard "loud" master and a audiophile version, closer to the actual studio mix.
 
http://www.nme.com/news/nine-inch-nails/72329
 
That's the kind of option I've been hoping to see for years. Now if only others could follow...
 
 

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    michaelhanson
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 18:22:04 (permalink)
    I hope he starts a trend.

    Mike

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    craigb
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 18:29:29 (permalink)
    Bad idea!  Once people get a taste of actual dynamic range, they're going to demand that they go back and redo all their albums!
     
    ()

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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    drewfx1
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 20:47:57 (permalink)
    Kudos? Did you actually read what they said?
     

    "Hesitation Marks was mastered in two different ways - the standard, “loud” mastering (which is what you’ll find on the CD, on iTunes, and everywhere else), and also an alternate “audiophile” mastering, which we’re offering as a free download option for anyone who purchases the album through nin.com. For the majority of people, the standard version will be preferable and differences will be difficult to detect. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process might prefer the alternate version."

     


     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #4
    Rain
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 21:04:01 (permalink)
    Whatever it is, I don't get it. :s 

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    drewfx1
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 21:14:29 (permalink)
    Here's what they wrote:


    "Hesitation Marks was mastered in two different ways - the standard, “loud” mastering (which is what you’ll find on the CD, on iTunes, and everywhere else), and also an alternate “audiophile” mastering, which we’re offering as a free download option for anyone who purchases the album through nin.com. For the majority of people, the standard version will be preferable and differences will be difficult to detect. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process might prefer the alternate version."

     
    Let me rewrite what they should have said:
     

    "Hesitation Marks was mastered in two different ways - the “loud” mastering (which is what you won't find on the CD, on iTunes, or anywhere else because it's clearly and obviously inferior), and also an alternate “audiophile” mastering where the audio wasn't intentionally ruined just too make it sound a little louder. For the majority of people who aren't severely brain damaged or just too stupid to understand how a volume control works, the standard version will sound like complete garbage. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process and anyone else who isn't too dim to know how to turn up the volume control to make things louder will almost certainly prefer the alternate version regardless of what kind of equipment they are playing it back on."


     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #6
    craigb
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 21:44:19 (permalink)
    Blah, blah, blah... (Can't read so I removed my comment!)
    post edited by craigb - 2013/09/04 06:47:58

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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    Rain
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 23:34:56 (permalink)
    drewfx1
     
     
    Let me rewrite what they should have said:
     

    "Hesitation Marks was mastered in two different ways - the “loud” mastering (which is what you won't find on the CD, on iTunes, or anywhere else because it's clearly and obviously inferior), and also an alternate “audiophile” mastering where the audio wasn't intentionally ruined just too make it sound a little louder. For the majority of people who aren't severely brain damaged or just too stupid to understand how a volume control works, the standard version will sound like complete garbage. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process and anyone else who isn't too dim to know how to turn up the volume control to make things louder will almost certainly prefer the alternate version regardless of what kind of equipment they are playing it back on."





    I think any one hoping to sell more than 5000 copies will have to take brain damaged people into consideration - they are the majority.
     
    Also, from their Facebook page:
     
    "NOTE: The standard mastered version is in no way inferior to the Audiophile Version - we wouldn’t release something inferior as the default. And vinyl purists rest assured, the vinyl edition was mastered to sound the very best for that format. The Audiophile Version is merely an alternate take on the mastering, which some people will appreciate. It’s meant to give a slightly different experience, not denigrate the standard version. Listen to each and come to your own conclusions."
     
     

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    Linear Phase
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/03 23:43:15 (permalink)
    Yes, because I need something with dynamics whenever I **** you like an animal.

    too many lasers...






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    UbiquitousBubba
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 08:27:57 (permalink)
    My kids recently told me about some of their friends who are self-appointed audiophiles.  These wizards of the aural arena have spent sizeable amounts of their parent's money on audio gear in order to create the perfect listening environment. 
     
    One of these MENSA members said, "I've got five subwoofers in the back of my car.  I turn the bass all the way down so I'm only listening to music through the subwoofers.  It's great!"  After one of my kids tried to explain one of the many problems with this statement, the future Nobel Prize winner said, "Wait.  What's the difference between Bass and Treble?  I thought they were the same thing."
     
    Audiophile.  I don't think it means what you think it means...
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    Mesh
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 10:37:37 (permalink)
    UbiquitousBubba
    My kids recently told me about some of their friends who are self-appointed audiophiles.  These wizards of the aural arena have spent sizeable amounts of their parent's money on audio gear in order to create the perfect listening environment. 
     
    One of these MENSA members said, "I've got five subwoofers in the back of my car.  I turn the bass all the way down so I'm only listening to music through the subwoofers.  It's great!"  After one of my kids tried to explain one of the many problems with this statement, the future Nobel Prize winner said, "Wait.  What's the difference between Bass and Treble?  I thought they were the same thing."
     
    Audiophile.  I don't think it means what you think it means...




    Obviously, they've completely wasted their parents money......
     
     


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    drewfx1
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 11:47:38 (permalink)
    Rain
    drewfx1
     
     
    Let me rewrite what they should have said:
     

    "Hesitation Marks was mastered in two different ways - the “loud” mastering (which is what you won't find on the CD, on iTunes, or anywhere else because it's clearly and obviously inferior), and also an alternate “audiophile” mastering where the audio wasn't intentionally ruined just too make it sound a little louder. For the majority of people who aren't severely brain damaged or just too stupid to understand how a volume control works, the standard version will sound like complete garbage. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process and anyone else who isn't too dim to know how to turn up the volume control to make things louder will almost certainly prefer the alternate version regardless of what kind of equipment they are playing it back on."





    I think any one hoping to sell more than 5000 copies will have to take brain damaged people into consideration - they are the majority.
     
    Also, from their Facebook page:
     
    "NOTE: The standard mastered version is in no way inferior to the Audiophile Version - we wouldn’t release something inferior as the default. And vinyl purists rest assured, the vinyl edition was mastered to sound the very best for that format. The Audiophile Version is merely an alternate take on the mastering, which some people will appreciate. It’s meant to give a slightly different experience, not denigrate the standard version. Listen to each and come to your own conclusions."
     
     




     
    The problem is they are clearly, deliberately implying to the uneducated masses that the compressed "standard" version is "better".
     

    The Audiophile Version is merely an alternate take on the mastering, which some people will appreciate. It’s meant to give a slightly different experience, not denigrate the standard version.

     
    WTF?
     

    For the majority of people, the standard version will be preferable and differences will be difficult to detect. Audiophiles with high-end equipment and an understanding of the mastering process might prefer the alternate version."

     
    I'm sorry, but it is not helpful to imply to civilians who don't understand the loudness wars that the version that hasn't been horribly compressed is something that might be preferred only by a select few people with "high-end equipment", and gosh, the uncompressed "audiophile" version hasn't been denigrated or anything - it's just different in a way most people couldn't hear and wouldn't appreciate anyway.
     
    Complete fail.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    Rain
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 13:51:51 (permalink)
    drewfx1
     
     
    I'm sorry, but it is not helpful to imply to civilians who don't understand the loudness wars that the version that hasn't been horribly compressed is something that might be preferred only by a select few people with "high-end equipment", and gosh, the uncompressed "audiophile" version hasn't been denigrated or anything - it's just different in a way most people couldn't hear and wouldn't appreciate anyway.
     
    Complete fail.




    I think I understand what you mean, but how is it Reznor's job to try and be helpful and educate people? I am convinced that it's absolutely pointless to even try, anyway. Most people simply cannot appreciate the difference and I don't think it's Reznor's or anyone else's job to educate them.
     
    Those who know will buy the audiophile version, and need no further explanation. All they need to know is that they have that option.
     
    A bunch of dimwits will probably also buy the audiophile version and pretend that they can appreciate it. Those are the same "audiophiles" who pay $300 Dr Dre's headphones. 
     
    And then the rest I guess will buy the regular version. I know people who are happy to stream music on YouTube.
     
    I'm guessing that NIN wouldn't put out an album that's ruined by the mastering either. But he knows that some people prefer to have something even less compressed. 
     
    So all in all, being one of the first (the first I know of anyway) to actually offer an alternative is a 100% win. Saying that it's a fail, we're still making a decision based on the aptitudes of the dimwits. 
     

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    Rain
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 13:53:06 (permalink)
    Linear Phase
    Yes, because I need something with dynamics whenever I **** you like an animal.




    I'd bring your attention to an album called The Fragile. ;)

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    drewfx1
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 14:21:36 (permalink)
    RainI think I understand what you mean, but how is it Reznor's job to try and be helpful and educate people? I am convinced that it's absolutely pointless to even try, anyway. Most people simply cannot appreciate the difference and I don't think it's Reznor's or anyone else's job to educate them.
     

     
    The problem I have is that, while I agree it's not his job to educate people, they are mis-educating people. I was ready to second your kudos until I read what they actually said and it ranged from being misleading, to just wrong (you need special high end equipment to hear a difference?), to, it was almost like they were actually trying to dissuade people from downloading the uncompressed version.
     
    If they just offered both versions (and made it a little easier to get/sample the uncompressed version) that would be different.
     
    I'm guessing that NIN wouldn't put out an album that's ruined by the mastering either.



    Well, if they have to lop off a bunch of low end altogether to allow them to compress it "enough", I take that as a warning sign. And there'd be no point in offering two versions if there wasn't much of a difference. But we'll see.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    craigb
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 16:13:30 (permalink)
    Maybe we should add an "Unnormalize" option to our wishlist for X3?

     
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    Brando
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    Re: Kudos to Trent Reznor! 2013/09/04 17:06:12 (permalink)
    Rain
    Something I read a couple of days ago. Apparently, the new album will be available in two versions: a standard "loud" master and a audiophile version, closer to the actual studio mix. http://www.nme.com/news/nine-inch-nails/72329 That's the kind of option I've been hoping to see for years. Now if only others could follow...  


    +1 Rain. Refreshing to see that somebody is trying to stem the tide. I just bought the deluxe CD from the NIN site for $20 plus shipping which is a substantial up from Amazon which has it (non audiophile) for $15.99 and qualifies for free shipping. The tracks are listed as 24 bit 48khz wave files and you also get mp3's, Flac and apple formats.
    I see this more about giving the consumer some options and maybe at the same time (without cutting his own throat, as this is his livelihood after all) educating the consumer.
    I share your enthusiasm. It's a start.

    Brando
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