Loptec
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Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
The key switch-function has become a standard in today's more advanced sample libraries. The strange thing is that this standard hasn't been followed by the DAWs. Why is that? It's very frustrating since new libraries tend to have too many key switches to remember and it's not very effective having to open the VST everytime you want to edit midi, just to see where the key switches are. What I'd like to have is a diatonic keylayout, but with the key switches included in the Piano Roll View. I think it's very strange this isn't implemented in Sonar, since we ALMOST have everything needed already! We have the abilibty to show the keys as deatonic OR with names of our own choosing (originally meant for drum kits). I think it would be awesome if we were able to pick a combo of these two, called "Diatonic with key switches" or something. This key-map would look like an ordinary diatonic keyboard, until you added a new note name (like you already can in non-diatonic ones) and named it to what ever this key articulation is doing. With this function we would have the nice diatonic key layouts, but with explaining text on the notes with key-switches on them. I created an explaining image of how it maybe cloud look like. In the image I also added the functions to choose different colors for the different key switches to get ability to visually group them into (for example) bends and such This may or may not already be kind of possible to do with drum maps though(?) .. I haven't worked at all with drum maps, so I'm not sure.. Is tehre anyone how's worked with key switches using drum maps that can explain if it's possible and (if it is) also how? Nevertheless, I think it would make it even easier if it were implemented directly into the PRV! It would at least make my life ALOT easier! :) Please, Cakewalk! ... I'm sure I'm not alone wanting something like this 
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
 DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 08:31:59
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I record notes for key switches on a separate track and use a drum map there. It's really easy.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 08:38:25
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...like this. 
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 09:08:58
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Well. I work alot with MIDI..
In my latest project I already have 20 MIDI-tracks so far (all separate instruments) and 10 of these tracks have patches with key switches.. Your method would add another 10 MIDI-tracks to the project which would make everything very confusing IMHO.
I also like to keep all my MIDI-tracks in one track folder, so when I edit MIDI I have everything there right in front of me. Working in this track folder with 30 MIDI tracks where 10 of them just are key switch-tracks that you have to select along with the "main" MIDI-track, I think, would get very confusing after a while working with large projects :/
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 09:29:38
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Sorry for posting a screenshot of a different daw below (couldn't find a good example project in Sonar) but this is how I manage tracks containing controller data only (key switches, expression pedal, etc.) I use white color for all these clips so it's easy to identify them, and in Sonar you can just hide all these white tracks and save the layout as a different screenset. In my case Screenset01 shows all tracks, Screenset02 hides all controller tracks, etc. I personally find this very convenient. 
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 09:55:20
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Yeah. I understand and see your point. :)
Working with a large number of MIDI-tracks though and (like me) liking the idea of having all MIDI-tracks in one folder still makes this method far from optimal though.
My main point from the start was that; I find it strange that the DAWs haven't implemented better support for key-switches even though it's been around for many many years now..
There are workarounds, yes. But why should we have to have workaround for something that is a standard in MIDI-editing today? Especially since these workarounds don't work for everyone because of different work flows etc.
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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bitflipper
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 10:58:16
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You don't have to put the keyswitches into a separate track to use drum maps. It just makes it easier to see and edit articulation changes, plus it's quicker to throw together an ad hoc map when you only have to define a handful of note values. Once you've created the map you can save it as a preset so it's a one-time chore.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 11:01:45
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 Maybe this is what you want to do? Both notes and key switches on a single track.  You need to create a new drum map and set it up like this (the example here is a kontakt instrument on MIDI Ch.6)
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 12:35:54
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Yeah alright. I've tried setting up a drum map now. The only reasonable way of using drum maps for key switches is IMO with two tracks. One for the notes and one for the key switches.
Having the diatonic view there is essential (for me anyway) when working with tonal instruments which makes it impossible to have the notes (piano keys) and key switches visible in the same view.. (For ppl that don't need the diatonic view when editing tonal instruments I'd recommend using instrument definitions instead of drum maps for setting up this though. With instrument definitions you only need to add the key switches and the rest of the notes will appear as numbers, instead of having to add all keys as you'd have to do using a drum map)
And as I said earlier working with larger projects makes it unmanageable to use two tracks for each MIDI-instrument.. :/
I find it strange that no one but me seems to think it's strange that the MIDI-editing tools haven't developed more for todays instruments and that I'm the only one that seem to want to have a function like this implemented.. :/
Check out the image in my first post once again.. Having the diatonic view like this and the key switches right there in the PRV! I'm the only one who thinks this would be awesome!? I'm the only one that think it's strange we don't have this already?? Really? =/
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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geetsifly
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 14:58:54
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Hi Samuel,
great topic. One thing I notice while trying to work with key switches recorded or painted into a midi track is that if you are listening and stop during a key switch rewind to a point between key switches and listen again the plugin may not then be playing the intended note articulation.
It would be good in your proposed solution if the software was smart enough to send the previous keyswitch even though the now time might not be sitting on top of it.
Because of this issue, lately I have been putting the different artiiculation sets on separate midi channels and going back and changing the midi channel for individual notes by hand or recording on that channel to get the intended result. This method is unsuitable for a player good enought to fire off keyswiches in realtime. I am not that good ;)
I dislike the method mentioned above but I get the correct notes and articulations every time.
George
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 20:38:08
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@George:
Hi, look at the first image I posted. The key switch notes there may look like a few very long notes, but in fact they are a few chains of hundreds of 16 notes, which will always play the intended articulation (this would make staff view messy that's also why I think it's best to use a separate track for key switches). In Studio One, there's a feature called Chase Long Notes, which plays long notes that start before the playback start time. I wish Sonar had it too so that I wouldn't have to draw lines of 16th notes. For how to conveniently draw a long line of short notes, ask Samuel because it's he who told me how. He might not remember it, though :)
@Samuel:
You don't need to add all keys in the drum map if you use the Pass Through map. But what's good about drum map is that you can hide (delete) ghost layers which you don't want to see in the PRV drum grid pane. Look at my first screenshot above. The view displays only the keyswitch layers, which eliminates the need to scroll the PRV when you work in both TV and PRV on one screen, for example.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 06:23:03
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@George Thanks George. Yeah. This lack of adaptation to today’s needs in MIDI-editing is something that annoys me daily, working with especially key switches.. As you (and everyone) is saying; there are workarounds. I just think it’s sad that there is a need for workarounds to something that has been a standard for MIDI-instruments for so long. :) ___________ @Jlien X
Alright, I can see the benefit of using drum map instead of instrument definition, thanks to the freedom of having only the keys you need visible. As I’ve described above I want to have a diatonic keyboard though for editing the notes. This in itself rules out the use of only a drum map (or instrument definition). The use of one diatonic MIDI-track (for editing notes) and another MIDI-track (for the key switches) is also something I can’t work with, since I mostly work with very large projects with lots of MIDI-tracks. I’d rather have 40 MIDI-tracks in which I can do all my editing than 80 MIDI-tracks divided into tonal/key switches. Again, as I’ve said before, this gets unmanageable. ..Not to mention that the keys your strike on your physical MIDI-controller don’t lit up when using DM or anything other than the diatonic keys in PRV. This is something I also find very strange. It must be a miss from Cakewalk’s side when they implemented it for the diatonic view. ___________ Still, no one has yet mentioned anything of wanting to have something like this implemented (Except George that at least doesn’t like the workarounds). Everything has been about workarounds and the benefit of their own way of doing it. Have you really thought this through? You really can’t see the superior benefits of having everything available in one track (with the diatonic keyboard). Another implementation of this (aside from the one in my first post) could be a simple addition to the Drum Map Manager. If we were able to configure a MIDI-chn. and out port for the diatonic view (that currently just becomes inactive when using DM) this would totally open up the use for key switches with the drum map functionality. Could look like something like the image below, in the Drum Map Manager window: 
post edited by Loptec - 2013/09/06 07:26:02
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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KoisanX
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 07:23:46
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I agree in principle to the original post. A standard would nice. I use a few DAWs - from a MIDI control perspective the Steinberg approach is definitely the most mature (VST expression) - if there's a standard to adopt, this IMO would be it.
The workarounds mentioned above are good, in the absence of an OEM solution; but a single foldable track per instrument is preferable, logical and neat.
My 2c.
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 07:46:33
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KoisanX
I agree in principle to the original post. A standard would nice. I use a few DAWs - from a MIDI control perspective the Steinberg approach is definitely the most mature (VST expression) - if there's a standard to adopt, this IMO would be it.
The workarounds mentioned above are good, in the absence of an OEM solution; but a single foldable track per instrument is preferable, logical and neat.
My 2c.
Hi KoisanX and welcome to the forums! Wow! I had no idea that other DAWs were lightyears ahead of Sonar when it comes to this...! That's REALLY sad! =( .. I checked out some youtube clips about the VST expression-function implemented by the Germans... It looks amazing!! :O ..What happened with "Sonar being the best DAW for MIDI"!?!! I think I'm going to cry now.... Cakewalk REALLY have to look into this! It's embarrassing, to say the least, how far behind Cakewalk is when it comes to MIDI. =/ It feels like they've dropped the MIDI side of Sonar completely (thinking about everything I've read on these forums about the staff view too) and only have been focusing on the audio-side for a long time now... It's really about time now to even this out, I think.. 
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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pianodano
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 08:07:57
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This is a very good topic and I appreciate the O Poster for bringing it up. The existing methodology for handling keyswitches is clumsy and confusing. It is clumsy because it is nearly impossible to remember which keys are assigned to which switches and confusing because you always need to scroll back to see the last key switch that was activated.
I think that what we really need is a method whereby we could have the KEYS (as in a diatonic keyboard) have a area to show a clearly defined description of the keyswitch(es) and that the keyswitch area or notes assigned to keyswitches be a different color to designate this. Also and this is very important, the keyswitch note value should always advance to the last true note played or extend to the current now time position. That way we would always know what the last switch used is. The software is supposed to lookback anyhow so that shouldn't be too hard.
The problematic thing is that sample library producers tend to use whatever note range or ranges that that are not being used by the current sample set. It could be last octave or maybe even a few upper notes or anywhere in between. I see that that can be a issue for a developer trying to work out a standardized system. Maybe a specific sort of control code to designate "THIS IS A KEYSWITCH". But if a system could be developed, maybe all library developers could take advantage of it and incorporate it within their libraries.
As someone that uses orchestral libraries all the time, I see this a very good topic and a problem that has be totally overlooked by DAW developers.
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 09:05:01
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Loptec
..Not to mention that the keys your strike on your physical MIDI-controller don’t lit up when using DM or anything other than the diatonic keys in PRV. This is something I also find very strange. Totally agree. Loptec
You really can’t see the superior benefits of having everything available in one track (with the diatonic keyboard).. I forgot to mention one thing. The reason why I decided to use a separate track for keyswitches wasn't actually because I wanted to use a drum map to display the keyswitch names. It was because I accidentally deleted keyswitch events once or twice when I just wanted to delete musical data to re-record the take (obviously, I delete the clip itself without realizing it contained keyswitch events). I always work on several projects at the same time and I forget which clips contain keyswitch events, so this mistake can happen again and I really don't like that. So, in my case, it's a superior benefit (it's interesting to see how our views differ). Loptec
Wow! I had no idea that other DAWs were lightyears ahead of Sonar when it comes to this If I understand correctly he said he uses a few DAWs and Cubase's approach is the most mature but he didn't necessarily say other DAWs are light years ahead of Sonar in terms of this feature (but I'm curious to know which other DAWs have the ability to show keyswitch names on a diatonic keyboard). What I can say for sure is Studio One can't do it and Sonar is light years ahead of S1 in terms of MIDI overall.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 09:22:03
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I hate to say this, but I don't think CW will change the current approach. They have more things to do (they need to fix various bugs in X2). So, in reality, I think you'll have to use a workaround. But still, it's worth submitting the request via the official FR page (I'm sure bakers are reading this thread, though). pianodano
Also and this is very important, the keyswitch note value should always advance to the last true note played or extend to the current now time position. That way we would always know what the last switch used is.
You'll no longer suffer from this if you use the approach I posted earlier.  But yes, I wish Sonar had the Chase Long Notes feature (so that we can hear every part even when we start the playback in the middle of a bar).
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 09:32:53
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Jlien X
Loptec
You really can’t see the superior benefits of having everything available in one track (with the diatonic keyboard)..
I forgot to mention one thing. The reason why I decided to use a separate track for keyswitches wasn't actually because I wanted to use a drum map to display the keyswitch names. It was because I accidentally deleted keyswitch events once or twice when I just wanted to delete musical data to re-record the take (obviously, I delete the clip itself without realizing it contained keyswitch events). I always work on several projects at the same time and I forget which clips contain keyswitch events, so this mistake can happen again and I really don't like that. So, in my case, it's a superior benefit (it's interesting to see how our views differ).
I find the key switches too connected with the rest of the performance to want to save them if I need to re-record a take. If I’m not happy with the performance in a MIDI-clip I always open it up in PRV and most often edit the clip (with the mouse) to get it right. If there is a need to re-record the whole thing I see no need to save the key-switches anyway, since the performance will differ anyway. Jlien X
Loptec
Wow! I had no idea that other DAWs were lightyears ahead of Sonar when it comes to this
If I understand correctly he said he uses a few DAWs and Cubase's approach is the most mature but he didn't necessarily say other DAWs are light years ahead of Sonar in terms of this feature (but I'm curious to know which other DAWs have the ability to show keyswitch names on a diatonic keyboard). What I can say for sure is Studio One can't do it and Sonar is light years ahead of S1 in terms of MIDI overall.
You’re right. He didn’t say other DAWs are lightyears ahead. That was my statement and is my strong view of this, that was formed just by some quite browsing around youtube. It’s as he says though that Steinberg’s approach is the most mature and only by checking out their solution makes it very clear how far (“lightyears” IMHO) behind Cakewalk is regarding this. ______________________ pianodano
This is a very good topic and I appreciate the O Poster for bringing it up. The existing methodology for handling keyswitches is clumsy and confusing. It is clumsy because it is nearly impossible to remember which keys are assigned to which switches and confusing because you always need to scroll back to see the last key switch that was activated.
I think that what we really need is a method whereby we could have the KEYS (as in a diatonic keyboard) have a area to show a clearly defined description of the keyswitch(es) and that the keyswitch area or notes assigned to keyswitches be a different color to designate this. Also and this is very important, the keyswitch note value should always advance to the last true note played or extend to the current now time position. That way we would always know what the last switch used is. The software is supposed to lookback anyhow so that shouldn't be too hard.
The problematic thing is that sample library producers tend to use whatever note range or ranges that that are not being used by the current sample set. It could be last octave or maybe even a few upper notes or anywhere in between. I see that that can be a issue for a developer trying to work out a standardized system. Maybe a specific sort of control code to designate "THIS IS A KEYSWITCH". But if a system could be developed, maybe all library developers could take advantage of it and incorporate it within their libraries.
As someone that uses orchestral libraries all the time, I see this a very good topic and a problem that has be totally overlooked by DAW developers.
I agree with everything you say :)
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 09:48:23
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Jlien X
I hate to say this, but I don't think CW will change the current approach. They have more things to do (they need to fix various bugs in X2). So, in reality, I think you'll have to use a workaround. But still, it's worth submitting the request via the official FR page (I'm sure bakers are reading this thread, though).
I actually think they'll have to change their approach to this if they want to compete with other DAWs. Software instruments are getting better and better and (with some MIDI-skills) it's impossible to hear the difference today between a software instrument and the real deal. More and more people are using software instruments instead of hiring real orchestras, choirs or what ever even if they have the budget, just because the software sound so real. Sure.. Cakewalk's got to fix the bugs as well, but I don't think this subject is something they can ignore if they want to survive in the long run..
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/06 11:56:06
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Loptec
Jlien X
Loptec
You really can’t see the superior benefits of having everything available in one track (with the diatonic keyboard)..
I forgot to mention one thing. The reason why I decided to use a separate track for keyswitches wasn't actually because I wanted to use a drum map to display the keyswitch names. It was because I accidentally deleted keyswitch events once or twice when I just wanted to delete musical data to re-record the take (obviously, I delete the clip itself without realizing it contained keyswitch events). I always work on several projects at the same time and I forget which clips contain keyswitch events, so this mistake can happen again and I really don't like that. So, in my case, it's a superior benefit (it's interesting to see how our views differ).
I find the key switches too connected with the rest of the performance to want to save them if I need to re-record a take. If I’m not happy with the performance in a MIDI-clip I always open it up in PRV and most often edit the clip (with the mouse) to get it right. If there is a need to re-record the whole thing I see no need to save the key-switches anyway, since the performance will differ anyway.
When I'm in the songwriting stage, note events of almost all MIDI clips are 100% quantized for convenience. After I'm happy with the chords and melodies, I randomize (humanize) all note events on all non-keyboard instrument tracks (e.g. drums, brass, strings). As for keyboard instrument tracks (organ, piano, etc.), I want to play and record the take myself without quantizing because I practice keyboard  So, I need to delete just musical data.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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Loptec
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/07 04:50:40
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Jlien X
When I'm in the songwriting stage, note events of almost all MIDI clips are 100% quantized for convenience. After I'm happy with the chords and melodies, I randomize (humanize) all note events on all non-keyboard instrument tracks (e.g. drums, brass, strings). As for keyboard instrument tracks (organ, piano, etc.), I want to play and record the take myself without quantizing because I practice keyboard
So, I need to delete just musical data.
Cool :) I'm mainly a pianist/keyboardist myself. I can't recall any organ/piano patches I've used that have key switches though, so in these cases I've had no problems just deleting the whole cips and re-record. When it comes to patches with key switches I don't think I have a standard method. It depends on various things if I choose to record or if I just open the PRV and draw the performance. I've always been a MIDI-drawing-nerd. I think this developed when latency always was an issue and you had to draw to get the notes where you wanted them. Today I "read" the PRV as easy as any sheet music and can draw any kind of performance with no trouble at all and hear the result in my head long before I play it. If I just need a simple chord structure with a patch that have lots of key switches I usually record the chord structure live and then edit the details after. The more complicated the performance the bigger chance of just opening the PRV and drawing the whole thing from scratch. Especially if it's an acoustic instrument (like guitar, brass, viloin ect) I can sit for hours in PRV nudging notes around and fine tuning controller data just to get exactly the feel I want. I never use randomized quantizing though. I want full control of everything. It's important for me that even the "timing errors" in a performance "feel right". Yes! I'm a control freak when it comes to music. It's time consuming but IMHO it's totally worth it! :P
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/07 05:31:24
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Loptec
I'm mainly a pianist/keyboardist myself. I can't recall any organ/piano patches I've used that have key switches though
Hammond B3 and C3 organs had keyswitches, the lower octave with reversed colours on each manual consists of keyswitches for different drawbar settings. (maybe the first implementation of keyswitches?). Native Instruments Vintage Organs and the earlier B4 II and GSI's VB3 all emulate this feature. While I manage reasonably well with the options in Sonar at the moment for key switches but any improvement would be most welcome. My biggest beef with keyswitches is most, if not all synth type controller keyboard options stop at 61 notes, which is too short for most keyswitched VSTis, I use a Kawai LP25 mini keyboard in conjunction with my 61 note boards and map the keyswitches to that.
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icontakt
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/07 07:41:01
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Loptec
Jlien X
When I'm in the songwriting stage, note events of almost all MIDI clips are 100% quantized for convenience. After I'm happy with the chords and melodies, I randomize (humanize) all note events on all non-keyboard instrument tracks (e.g. drums, brass, strings). As for keyboard instrument tracks (organ, piano, etc.), I want to play and record the take myself without quantizing because I practice keyboard
So, I need to delete just musical data.
Cool :)
I'm mainly a pianist/keyboardist myself. I can't recall any organ/piano patches I've used that have key switches though
Me neither lol (...but Glyn taught us what we didn't know, thanks Glyn). Hmm....maybe they were choir clips with key switches and I just wanted to replace the chords with better ones and mistakenly deleted the key switches with the clips....don't remember anymore. I now want to give your request a big +1 because if PRV can have a diatonic key layout with key switches, I can still use a separate lane (yes, the controversial Take Lanes!) for only key switches, and note events and key switches will both appear in PRV. But the diatonic key layout must be able to hide ghost keys so that we won't have to scroll down the PRV to display key switches. 
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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ralf
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Re: Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2017/01/04 08:32:23
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For instruments with key switches, I use custom note names in PRV, and for the notes that aren't key switches, I simply use a layout resembling the diatonic scheme: C3
B2
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A2
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G2
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F2
E2
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D2
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C2
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