Daan
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Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
I`ve recently upgraded to X2 and I`m working on my first project with it. I`ve recorded volume automation on two instrument tracks, one with Dimension pro, the other with TAL uno LX plugin. Read automation doesn`t work unless write automation is enabled. After recording automation and disabling the write button, the volume on the meters also shows zero, while it shouldn`t be. Also, sometimes the write button can not be activated, unless a different type of automation is selected. (overwrite, latch or touch).
I have no other problems with X2.
What is going on? Is this a massive bug..?
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John
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/10 19:10:27
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Split them into MIDI and audio tracks and it should work.
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Daan
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/11 11:13:51
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When I opened the project again this morning, the problems were gone. Sonar is reading automation on instrument tracks without the write button enabled.
I hope it will stay like this...
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Daan
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/11 16:00:10
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It`s back.....
I recorded volume automation again, this time on an audio track. Automation seems to work with the write button off, but the meter shows nothing. Only with write button on the meter works.
And in "overwrite" mode, the write button cannot always be enabled, just sometimes it works. I closed and reopened Sonar, but it didn`t help.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/11 18:10:27
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StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Daan
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/12 06:35:33
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Thank you! With offset mode off, it works :-)
By the way, I wrote that the meters didn`t show volume automation, but they do, i meant the volume control didn`t show automation.
Still, this is mysterious to me, because:
- The track that I recorded earlier already showed automation on the volume control, so the problem was solved by itself somehow, just the newly recorded track didn`t.
- The recorded automation was audible, just the control didn`t show it. As I understand it, offset should be audible too, and not follow automation.
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stevec
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/12 07:45:01
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Correct, offset mode should not visually display automation changes. That's it purpose though, to override the automation's values by offsetting them by whatever value is chosen while in that mode.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Daan
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 05:43:07
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stevec
Correct, offset mode should not visually display automation changes. That's it purpose though, to override the automation's values by offsetting them by whatever value is chosen while in that mode.
I understand, but automation changes were still audible in my project in offset mode, even while the volume control didn`t show them. And should`t changes also be ignored with the write button enabled, which also wasn`t the case.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 07:18:23
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☄ Helpfulby Daan 2013/09/13 09:32:35
oh wow... that's a funny concept... writing offsets... wouldn't that be impossible to fix!! giggle... Usually you don't write offset data. Offset data is to globally change a modifyer to the particular control. If you are auditioning audio with a track write enabled and you enter offset mode, as far as the writing of parameters is concerned, none will happen. This is because the program doesn't think you are moving the faders that apply to the track level. You are moving the faders that apply to offset -- does this make sense? Theoretically, you could make offset changes during an audition of the audio where you have write enable on and then turn offset off and continue writing envelope automation. All offsets are 0 when you start a new project. If you change a pan pot offset to L45% then turn off offset mode, that track will still play L45%. The pan pot in the track will reflect 0 but it will play to the left. To fix the offsets, return to offset mode and 0 all controls. So far as I know, there is no way to detect the controls that have an offset applied other than viewing the control in offset mode. You can see the envelope marker on tracks with envelopes, but I don't think there is an offset marker to alert you. It would be nice if there were a "Reset all offsets" method for those of us who get there accidentally. This is a relatively common goof to be honest. Offset mode makes me personally crazy, so I re-map the O key to like save project or something so that if I accidentally bump it I'm not ruined. For me, it takes me a long time to undo everything that went wrong while I was in offset mode. I have never purposely used offset mode to date.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/09/13 07:42:42
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 07:33:08
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Daan, you suggest that Sonar should block you or warn you when you are in offset mode while Write Automation is enabled and you are auditioning the audio. I pretty much agree that this would be an improvement. It would help reduce the number of confused people attempting to write automation after accidentally bumping the O key. IMHO, they could make a dramatic GUI Color Change any time anyone enters offset mode to be sure it's intended -- an actual RED FLAG if you will. I should say that all you describe suggests that Sonar is working for you exactly as it was designed to work. You can enter offset mode while auditioning if you want to. Even stay there while auditioning to tweak the offset values regardless of whether Automation Write is enabled or not. When you intentionally use offset mode, it is helpful to hear your recording as you set the offsets.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/09/13 07:39:57
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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stevec
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 07:51:55
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Yeah, automating an Offset doesn't make much sense as gswitz outlined. The automation is written at the track level, and the offset is overriding that automation by the given amount. Plus, there would be a conflict if a track envelope was moving one direction while the Offset was moving the other.
FWIW, when in Offset mode a "+" will display on all applicable controls, and there's an indicator in the Control Bar module.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Daan
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 09:30:39
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gswitz
oh wow... that's a funny concept... writing offsets...
wouldn't that be impossible to fix!! giggle...
Usually you don't write offset data.
Maybe my English is hard to understand, or I don`t understand yours..but I wasn`t trying to write offset data. I tried to make clear that I noticed that, when the write button is enabled, automation changes are displayed while in offset mode. I was just trying to find out if this was supposed to be so, and giving as much info as possible. gswitz
All offsets are 0 when you start a new project. If you change a pan pot offset to L45% then turn off offset mode, that track will still play L45%. The pan pot in the track will reflect 0 but it will play to the left. Clear. gswitz Daan, you suggest that Sonar should block you or warn you when you are in offset mode while Write Automation is enabled and you are auditioning the audio.
I pretty much agree that this would be an improvement. It would help reduce the number of confused people attempting to write automation after accidentally bumping the O key. IMHO, they could make a dramatic GUI Color Change any time anyone enters offset mode to be sure it's intended -- an actual RED FLAG if you will.
+1 gswitz I should say that all you describe suggests that Sonar is working for you exactly as it was designed to work. It is clear to me now that fortunately it wasn`t a bug but a feature...  But to me two questions still remain: why was offset mode gone/did sonar display track automation when I closed the project, shut down the computer and opened it again next day? First thing I did was checking if track automation worked now, before I even pressed a key or did anything else. I`m absolutely sure i didn`t press the O key. Question two: even if i did press O (which i didn`t) why did offset still apply to the next track I was automating volume on? And since offset is global, how can it be one track is in offset mode and another is not? Can it somehow be set per track, so I must have accidentally done that??? stevec FWIW, when in Offset mode a "+" will display on all applicable controls, and there's an indicator in the Control Bar module If the control bar doesn`t show the mix module, like I have set it up, only the very small +sign remains, which is very easily overlooked. Especially if you`re not familiar with offset, which many users must be.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 10:56:20
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It may be that on startup, sonar removes offset. You could do a quick test to know for sure.
Also, I can say that this feature has caught me more than once. It doesn't happen often enough for me to always recognize the symptoms right away.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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stevec
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 13:53:15
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I guess for anyone that intentionally uses Offset mode on a fairly regular basis, as I do, the "+" never really goes unnoticed because I'm always aware of it. What's weird is that even with my lack of accurate typing skills the "O" key is one that I don't seem to unintentionally press. That's OK though, there are plenty of others (the "E" has caught me before).  But I can certainly understand how it could catch you offguard if you don't work with Offset mode or don't even know it's there!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 18:25:15
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Steve, could you explain a little why you use it? What's your workflow that makes you need it?
I move envelopes around pretty casually, but I don't use offset much and I'd love to learn the use case.
Thanks,
G
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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konradh
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 21:19:44
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Some people don't believe me, but I have evidence that sometimes read only works when write is on. I have been unable to isolate the factors.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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stevec
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 21:49:48
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☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2013/09/14 09:55:16
gswitz
Steve, could you explain a little why you use it? What's your workflow that makes you need it?
I move envelopes around pretty casually, but I don't use offset much and I'd love to learn the use case.
Thanks,
G
Sure. If I've made more than a few envelope adjustments and need to raise or lower the entire thing a little, I find it convenient to enable Offset mode, adjust the fader (or other widget) exactly as needed, then turn Offset mode off. Volume is a common example. I know the entire envelope can be selected and moved, but I find the dexterity and precision needed to move an envelope in small increments greater than grabbing a fader/widget. Not to mention needing to zoom out to lasso the whole thing, then zooming back in and/or expanding the track or lane height to get the required accuracy. Maybe it's a mindset more than anything - I'm adjusting the entire envelope without needing to actually adjust the envelope.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/13 23:51:43
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Sold Steve. You're right. I do exactly what you just described to move the whole envelope.
And yes, it would be better to do it with offset.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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stevec
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Re: Sonar X2 read automation doesn`t work
2013/09/14 09:30:54
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Cool! I'm glad to see you might find use it in. For me it really does make this little part of the process much easier.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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