Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra?

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jazzwombat
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2013/09/11 14:52:11 (permalink)

Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra?

I've never been entirely convinced that I have my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra software 'mixer' set up correctly, especially on the software sends (right side). My hardware inputs are front channel 1 for a mic and channels 5/6 (back) for input from my Ketron SD2 midi output. I normally listen thru headphone output 1. Right now, I have set all levels to 0, max volume. This works, but I worry that by having every level set to max I may be introducing audio where I don't want it or creating some sort of audio looping, delay, or echo. I've not experienced such problems, but...
 
For users of the Fast Track Ultra, would you kindly post how you have your software mixer set up (and maybe an explanation)? Alternatively, I'd eagerly welcome suggestions on how to set the levels on my Fast Track, given the current inputs and outputs I've mentioned.
 
Thank you!
 
Bob aka jazzwombat
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    jazzwombat
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    Re: Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra? 2013/09/12 09:00:17 (permalink)
    Anyone? (The Fast Track Ultra headphone post has over 2200 hits.)
     
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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra? 2013/09/12 13:49:18 (permalink)
    This may do more harm than good.
     
    Primary track recording here takes place takes place on an i7 with an M-Audio 2626 interface. There are a pair of Behringer ADA-8000s connected to ADAT ports A and B for extra I/O, but those are for playback and monitoring. There's a 240 point patchbay which allows me to reroute inputs currently being recorded so as to bypass the ADA-8000s and feed directly into the 2626. Inputs 1 and 2 on the 2626 are fed from a Focusrite ISA-2 at line level, so I can bypass the preamps on the 2626.
     
    This way, in base configuration, I can leave 24 ins and outs hooked up full time and monitor any of those without patching, instant flexibility. When arrangements are complete, I can reroute specific inputs thru the best of the available signal chains for recording. Now to your question.
     
    In addition to the ADA-8000s feeding the 2626 ADAT ports, I have an M-Audio Fast Frack Ultra (henceforth FTU) interface attached to a second PC. This is connected to the 2626 SPDIF I/O ports, effectively in an 8x2 submix configuration. (Going the other way, it becomes a 2x8 monitor select/effects send.) I also use the MIDI port on the FTU for certain MIDI routings, this allows me to run softsynths and samplers on the second PC, offloading the processing horsepower from the primary DAW.
     
    In base configuration, FTU inputs 1 and 2 receive mic level outputs from Shure digital wireless receivers, and software inputs 1 and 2 are driven by the second PC's audio software, be it Winamp, Media Player, an FLV video player, or the softsynths/samplers. On the FTU software mixer, there are four tabs, one for each output pair, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8. 7/8 corresponds to the SPDIF outputs. On the 1/2, 3/4, and 5/6 tabs, all faders are set to infinity, "silent". One the 7/8 SPDIF tab, fader 1 and/or 2 are usually set to unity gain or infinity, depending on if I'm actively using them or not. Software faders 1 and 2 are set to unity gain. Software signal source outputs are set to feed the FTUs software inputs at about -6db with the software faders at unity. Master out faders are set to unity. All other software faders are set to infinity.
     
    The FTUs channel 1 and 2 physical input gain controls are set so as to bring the front panel LEDs to just shy of clip on the hottest wireless mic signals. Thinking goes like this:
     
    While writing or arranging, it is useful to have the freedom of wireless mics, and recorded material playback that's not dependant on the primary DAW, even though I have no plans to record tracks that way. if I do want to lay down a quick scratch track, the potential for additional noise and signal degradation brought on by wireless interference, or stacked interfaces is not a strong consideration, since I'm looking for the idea, not a pristine track. At the same time, there's no reason to add any more noise than necessary to the audio chain.
     
    Consider a hypothetical situation where I had a noisy guitar amp connected to FTU input 3. (This does happen occasionally if I'm auditioning guitar effects in a busy mix and run out of I/O elsewhere.) If I want to scratch track the guitar effect, the layered noise will make little difference due to the hum and buzz present in the amp model or sim. but if I want to only record a scratch track from the wireless mic(s), I'll pull down the number 3 software fader to get rid of the amp/sim/effect noise. Taking the thinking further, if there's nothing attached to input 3, I'd still want the fader down if I disconnected the effect but left a 15 foot patch cord attached to the input. The noise inherent in the effect is much greater than that from a cable alone, but why risk noise when a simple fader flip negates it? Further yet, with no cable attached, all i have to worry about is noise picked up by the input port wiring, but again, why risk it? Pull the fader down.
     
    Its a binary solution set. With the fader down, there may be no improvement, but with it up, the difference can only be negative. Avoid the potential noise. The 2626 software mixer allows me to set everything the way I need it for a specific application, and then save the entire board, with a long and detailed filename, to be called up in an instant later on. I can further organize these presets into folders and subgroups. I haven't tried this with the FTU but I assume that this or similar functionality is possible.
     
    Simplest answer...The FTU software faders for channel 1 and 2 are always set to unity gain. If I'm not actively using the FTU, it's faders in the 2626 software mixer are set to infinity. The only time a software fader comes up on the FTU is when I'm actively using it. The hardware pots on the FTU are semi-permanently set to nominal gain.
     
    Hope this helps.
     
     
    post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2013/09/12 13:55:18

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    jazzwombat
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    Re: Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra? 2013/09/12 19:17:12 (permalink)
    Thanks. Your reply is quite helpful.
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    jazzwombat
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    Re: Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra? 2013/09/12 19:29:48 (permalink)
    One thing that continues to confuse me is that each pair-wise channel tab has level sliders for all eight hardware inputs and all eight software returns. So, if I open monitor 1/2, I have options to have hardware inputs channels 1&2 at unity, but so too any of the other six input channels. Ditto with the software returns: I could have 1-2 at unity, but I could also shove the sliders on all other six to unity too. If I have audio coming into inputs 1-2, it makes sense to have those inputs at unity, as well as 1-2 software returns. Same for audio coming into 3-4: I'd have input 3-4 at unity, as well as output 3-4 at unity. Under what conditions/circumstance would I want to have any other channel unity, i.e., if I have audio input in channels 1 and 2, why would I want to slide input to 3-4 to unity, or move the slider to unity on output to 5-6 ?? That's really is the focus of my question and the heart of my confusion.
     
    Any advice or help?
     
    Bob
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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Software monitor level settings on the Fast Track Ultra? 2013/09/14 10:32:54 (permalink)
    So the magic hit an already rockin local band last night, they were all on it, the crowd was in it, my smokin firefighter of a date got her first taste of rock, the club staff obviously knew their way around Patrone and margueritas, and then two of four cats got out before I had coffee this morning,I have dew and pond mud up to my calves,  so instead of trying to decipher this, Ima cut to the chase and if it doesn't fly, try again tomorrow.
     
    Close your eyes.
     
    Imagine 3 power amps, analog inputs. One more, with digital ins. Four sets of speakers. Speaker sets 1 and 2 are echoed to headphone outs 1 and 2.
     
    Four identical mixers, just upstream from the power rack. Mixer A feeds speakers 1, left and right, Mixer B > speaker set 2, etc.
     
    Decide which speakers you want to listen to. For fun, we'll say speakers 1, left and right, and/or phones 1, left and right, since they're the same. Set all faders on mixers B. C, and D to infinity, off, zero, bottom of the throw.
     
    On tab 1/2, or mixer A, fade up what you want to hear to unity, fade mains to unity, all others to infinity, enjoy life! If, and only if, you want to change and listen to other speakers, set all faders on this mixer to zero, and fade up the inputs, hardware, software or both, on the mixer/tab that corresponds to the new set of speakers.
     
    Each mixer feeds and controls one stereo pair. Only fade up what you need to, leave all other faders on all other boards, at infinity.
     
    That's the simple case.
     
    Before going one step further, I want to modify this. A well set up mono, hardware mixer, is not going to give you your best sound, with the mains at unity, and more than one channel fader anywhere above infinity. One mono main fader at unity, one channel input at unity. One mono main fader at unity, with two hot inputs, both the channel ins want to be at -3db each. Otherwise you are trying to use a mixer as a power amp. This again is a simple case, it depends on exactly how your mixer is wired, and it may or may not translate to the stereo output imaginary software mixers we are discussing here. This is old school stuff, I haven't discussed this with anyone since Marty McCann and Peavey HDH stacks driven by CS series power, ruled the known universe. I'm not sure exactly where you're going to find the info on this, but the point is made. If you hear distortion, but your meters look good, look at how many multiples of out faders you have to math up to get the number of used in faders and pull 3 db for each multiple. If this doesn't work, call Marty and whoever wrote the software.
     
    Now, you have one mixer, amp, and speaker pair in use, and that one board is properly set up to unity gain, and, you have gone back to your individual signal sources and set them to knock at the top of the yellow in your meter bridge. We'll call that "calibrated unity", and for right now, we're using interface outs 1 and 2, and tab 1 or mixer A.
     
    Lets say this is your control room mix, what you will hear when you press "play" on your daw, plus any live instruments that feel like chiming in, that you've faded up on mixer A. All is good in the control room.
     
    But what about your singer in the vocal booth? You can pipe her a pair of cans, fed off headphone 1, mixer A, tab one, and she'll hear the same thing you hear in the control room. You try this and right off, she wants "more me". Soon as you do that, she's so loud it drowns out everything else. Something has to give, and here's how you do it.
     
    Feed her cans from phones out 2. Set up her mix on tab 2, mixer B, whatever you want to call it, setting all relevant faders to unity, (as modified in the "Peavey" paragraph), and all other faders on that tab to infinity.
     
    Perfect, she hears one mix, you hear another, all is well...
     
    ...except...
     
     
    ...she want verb on "more me". Kk, no sweat, you dial it in using the FTU's onboard effects, and....
     
    ...she HATES IT!
     
    "What kinda of studio IS THIS? What is this jank-ass reee-verb you're putting on me...dude, springs went out in 60s, I want my LEXICON!"
     
    And you just happen to have a brand new Lexi 7500G, (G stands for GOLD darlin!) fresh out of the box but...how you gonna patch this, and quick, before she busts a gasket and both cords, done for the day?
     
    Here it is...start looking at a THIRD mixer, but really, in this case, bypass mixer 3 and go straight to 4, cuz...now yer gonna take advantage of those SPDIF ports, both ways, in and out, and yer gonna send her "vocal" out the mains on mixer/tab 4 to the real reverb unit, and bring it back in on Britney's board, (tab 2, remember?) and save one whole DA generation for your use later on.
     
    Finally, if somebody else wants yet another mix, or hardware effects send/return, you have mixer/tab 3 to work with, and you can deal with the difference between line and phone levels and the fact that you only get one pair of digi outs, cuz yer the man!
     
    Got any aspirin?
     
     
    post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2013/09/14 10:42:01

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