Helpful ReplyNew computer, Haswell or Sandy or Ivy?

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Kevin Kascak
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2013/09/15 00:43:03 (permalink)

New computer, Haswell or Sandy or Ivy?

Well my Quadcore 775 have done welll for the past 4-5 years but it is getting a little long in the tooth and my MOBO can only handle 8GB of memory, so I'm getting ready to upgrade.  I'm looking at 32 GB of memory and I noticed the new Sandy 8 cores are out but just too pricey.  Is it best to go with a Sandy 1155 Quad, Sandy 2011 6 core or a Haswell 1150 quad to work with Sonar and many softsynths, samples and plug ins.  I was really hoping for an eight core but the upper ones are $1,900.00 and that's just nuts.  I've never spend more than $330.00 on a CPU but I might for a 6 core\12 thread if the performance is worth the price difference.
 Almost forgot, I'm running Win 8 Pro x64, Sonar x64, Motu HD 192, Touchscreen and Alpha track control surface.
So any ideas? 
Thanks
Kevin
post edited by Kevin Kascak - 2013/09/15 12:26:31
#1
fireberd
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/15 09:11:18 (permalink)
My suggestions to anyone that asks is "buy overkill" or "as much as your pocketbook can stand".  It won't be needed now, but down the line you will be glad you did. 
 
My new (last year) system that I built has an i7 3770 CPU.  Its probably along the lines of what you want and not break the bank.  (see my sig).

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#2
Kevin Kascak
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/15 12:25:53 (permalink)
Firebird:
Price wise what you have 1155(4 core\8 thread) or a 1150 Haswell i7  (4 core\8 thread) or a 2011 i7 (six core\ 12 thread) are my choices money wise.    These CPU's are in my price range but I'm not sure which will perform the best for high plug in, softsynth, samples and track count.  I.e. would a 1155 or 1150 with four cores perform better or worse than a 2011 with 6 cores at a slightly less clock speed?  Also would any of these have an inherent advantage in relation to latency in Sonar?
 
Here are some CPU's I'm looking at. :
Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80633i74930K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116939
 
 
Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770K            
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901
 
 
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
 
 
Thanks
Kevin
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slartabartfast
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/15 19:41:02 (permalink)
Well, it is always nice to have the latest and greatest version of everything computer, even if it will only be current for 6-18 months. But like buying a new car every year, it may not be the most cost effective way to get to work. Buying the best, newest or greatest computer is usually a symptom of not knowing what you need and using your hard earned (or easily inherited) money instead of your precious time to make a rational decision. If you have a ****load of money to spend on a DAW, I suggest that you go to one of the better professional DAW assemblers and buy their hottest newest workstation. That way you are relatively certain that incompatibilities have been weeded out, and you will get a reasonably current functioning DAW.
 
The only good reason for building your own system is to save a little money, and avoid the disaster that frequently accompanies buying a machine that was designed to play games or run complex graphics software. You will not save any money buying the newest components at retail, and you will not save any time researching the individual components. I have always built my own systems, but never using hottest most recent most expensive components, and have managed to save a little money and spend a lot of time. Since I have no income, that is a reasonable bargain considering the little time I have left.
 
The first question to ask yourself is what problem you are currently having running your software on an 8 GB system. If you are not having problems, it is not time to upgrade to a system that will be obsolete by the time you start to have problems.
 
The next is what kind of software you plan to run. Not just Sonar, but are you using samplers or synths and how many and how much processing of how many tracks. For most audio applications raw processor speed is more important than a gazillion cores.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/15 23:04:15 (permalink)
I've been reading many reviews on Hasewell and it seems that it does not offer any real improvement in performance over earlier CPUs.  The real improvement or focus on Hasewell development has been about power consumption and reducing that.  So, for now it seems sticking with an earlier chip is a good idea.  However, since this new generation (4th) of chips requires a new socket, it might not be a bad idea to invest in a Hasewell MB in anticipation of the CPU's improvement over time.  I guess it depends on what you need and when you need it.  Heck, PCs (Ivy) have all the power one needs nowadays.  Can't see the need or justification to have the most recent product for the sake of its technology.  I'm quite happy with my i7-3630QM Ivy laptop.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker
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fireberd
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/16 09:57:03 (permalink)
The main difference between the i7 3770 and the i7 3770K, beside the $$ is the K is more for overclocking.  I don't overclock or plan on it so the i7 3770 was right for me.
 
the i7 3770 is a "Quad Core" but its a "dual quad core" (best I can describe it), thus it operates as 8 cores.
 
 

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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/16 10:07:22 (permalink)
Kevin Kascak
Firebird:
Price wise what you have 1155(4 core\8 thread) or a 1150 Haswell i7  (4 core\8 thread) or a 2011 i7 (six core\ 12 thread) are my choices money wise.    These CPU's are in my price range but I'm not sure which will perform the best for high plug in, softsynth, samples and track count.  I.e. would a 1155 or 1150 with four cores perform better or worse than a 2011 with 6 cores at a slightly less clock speed?  Also would any of these have an inherent advantage in relation to latency in Sonar?
 
Here are some CPU's I'm looking at. :
Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80633i74930K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116939
 
 
Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770K            
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901
 
 
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
 
 
Thanks
Kevin




Hi Kevin,
 
Your listed order would be the order of "desirability"
If you have the budget, the 4930k will yield the most potential.
The motherboard will be a little more expensive.
 
Note that Haswell and IvyBridge-Extreme both run hotter than IvyBridge.
If you plan to over-clock, get a cooler that's up to the task.
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
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jcschild
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/16 11:02:04 (permalink)
ok time to get some facts correct..
 
1) someone mentioned that Haswell is NOT an improvement over Ivy this is completely incorrect
 
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/829104-prelim-haswell-benchmarks.html
Haswell does run a bit hotter than Ivy but with the right cooler is no issue.
 
you only real options are Haswell or Ivy E. it would be foolish to buy older.
 
Ivy-E is no better than Sandy-E performance wise but runs much cooler (NOT hotter)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/866352-preliminary-ivy-e-benchies.html
 
Haswell vs Ivy-E :
the basic raw performance for most is pretty close. if you are not a heavy samples user (real samples not synths)
or doing massive effects and crazy 96K track counts then just buy the Haswell.
you want the best of the best get the 4930K
either one you want to over clock.
 
 
 

Scott
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/17 00:19:36 (permalink)
Scott, didn't you mention in that thread that you were not testing with an "off the shelf" chip?  If that is the case, can we really rely on your results as typical?  If Sandy-E did well against Haswell and Ivy-E is expected to perform much better, not to mention Haswell's small margin of OC performance gain, then where is the REAL improvement?  Seems to me that spending more might give you a bump (considering the higher temps), but is it really worth it at this present time?
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/17 11:14:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2013/09/17 13:06:13
When overclocking to 4.5Ghz, Haswell is definitely hotter than IvyBridge.
For the novice, it's more of a challenge to get Haswell running rock-solid, cool, and quiet at 4.5GHz 
High performance cooling (LARGE) is a must.
 
IvyBridge-Extreme has the same advantages as it's predecessor (six cores and quad-channel RAM)
The gap is closer, but Ivy-E is top of the food chain.
 
If you currently have an IvyBridge (1155) or SandyBridge (2011) based DAW, it's not (yet) worth the cost to upgrade.  Not enough of a speed bump to warrant the expense.
If you're buying new... it makes sense.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
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Kevin Kascak
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Re: New computer, Haswell or Sandy? 2013/09/17 15:21:15 (permalink)
Well I'd like to thank everyone for their advice.  Jim and Scott, as usual, your input is greatly appreciated.  All of the advice helped me make up my mind. 
 
Since I'm going from a 775 quadcore with 8GM DDR2, I'm going for a serious bump.  I'm going for the Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80633i74930K.  I've been really pushing all four cores and the memory on my DAW.  I use samples for multiple drum and keyboard tracks.  This combined with plenty of subtle Fx push my system hard.  I just think the 6 core\12 thread CPU will give me a big boost I'm looking for. 
 
Thanks for all the help,
Kevin
post edited by Kevin Kascak - 2013/09/20 20:00:32
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