Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns

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Morticia
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2013/09/28 08:08:06 (permalink)

Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns

System info: Windows 8 64 bit, Sonar X2a 64 bit and all VST plugins are 64 bit
Note my underlying OS is patched with latest updates and very stable.

What I am trying to achieve:
To play a built in drum pattern within either Cakewalk SI Drums or Addictive Drums and to record it as a temporary guide drum track in order to lay further parts until I finish a permanent 'hand rolled' drum track.
 
I have had Sonar X2 for a month now, having switched from Samplitude and I haven't actually managed so far to use it to produce anything yet. I find it very unintuitive and working with midi and VSTi is a total nightmare.
I am not computer illiterate either, I have worked in I.T. for 15 years.

I have followed these instructions to the letter several times:
cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=SoftSynths.19.html

However, I can only record the output from either of the drum VSTs only when it is triggered from an external controller e.g keyboard etc.
What is the point of SI Drums shipping with built in drum patterns when all that can be done with them is to play them back. Utterly pointless.

I have also tried this approach without any success:

forum.cakewalk.com/Recording-MIDI-out-from-VST-m1305214.aspx

BTW, the comment arkiruthis makes in this thread, about the Midi implementation in Sonar is very true; it is about as elegant as a baboon's bottom.

Also it is impossible to record the drum VST output as audio, because as soon as it is routed through an audio track, the record arm button vanishes. Doh !

I couldn't give a rat's arse whether I end up recording it to a midi or audio track, as long as I end up with a recorded guide drum track.

Is anybody able to assist me please ?

I am getting to the point where I feel that it is simply not worth putting any more effort into struggling with this buggy piece of software and that it would be easier, and worth the upgrade cost, to return to Samplitude.
 
Producing music should not be this onerous
 
* Apologies, I appear to have put this in the wrong Sonar Producer / Studio forum
post edited by Morticia - 2013/09/28 08:14:52
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/28 09:02:55 (permalink)
    You're not supposed to record the drum VSTs. That's simply how it's designed to be. You're frustrated because you're trying to do things that are not meant to be done. It's not complicated when you know the very basics.
    Have you done the tutorials about using VSTs ? There's a 1800 page Reference guide, have you studied it?
     
    Recording a synths MIDI-output, that your link is about, has nothing/little to do with making drum audio tracks.
     
    When you have the MIDI drum beat on the MIDI track and playing through the VST you can leave it like that if you wish. You can also do  "Bounce to track" or "Freeze" which results in an audio track. Then you can delete the
    VST if you want.
     
    Software like SONAR is such a powerful beast, that you have to do quite bit of homework in order to control it.
    It's not reasonable to start copy pasting the elementary parts of the help files here on the forum.
    post edited by Kalle Rantaaho - 2013/09/28 09:07:16

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #2
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/28 11:34:10 (permalink)
    This is also not the correct forum, And I see after 2 years they finally took my advise and are calling it X series. Hopefully this will point people to the correct forum from now on so they get help quicker. 
     
    All of what Kalle is saying is correct. Don't feel bad, it is the most common mix up when people use  Sonar or any new software. We expect it to work the way we would have designed it. 
     
    There is no need to record the drums. You build your midi data tracks that will trigger the drums and play them back. When your song is finished and you export it to a standard wave file those sounds will play exactly like they did in Sonar ( with the correct settings enabled) 
     
    You can also do as Kalle mentioned and bounce to create an Audio track which is handy if you wish to apply audio related efxs to the track. There are dozens of options.
     
    Sonar is actually considered one of the better DAWs for working with MIDI. It takes a lot of work, reading and time to learn any DAW. You have Sonar so you might as well get at it. Or switch now to Cubase or Studio 1 before you carry one any further. Each DAW has it's ups and downs so personlay I'd use what I have already paid for first.
     
    It took me possibly 1000 hours to get a grasp on the parts of Sonar I need to use.There is still 50% of the features I have never used. This forum was where I learned 90% of what I needed to know. I visit every morning with my coffee and read all the new posts. Every day I learn something new. Today I learned that x3 is now available Yawn! I'm still working on 8.5 but I read about X series so if the day does come I'll be aware of features. My guess is a few months of complaining about bugs and "what happened to this?" threads. 
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2013/09/28 11:39:34

    Johnny V  
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    #3
    Morticia
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/28 17:28:40 (permalink)
    Well thank you both kindly for your very patronising and highly unhelpful replies
    <quote>
    You're not supposed to record the drum VSTs
    </quote>
     
    If that is the case (and I'd be very grateful if you would direct me to the place where this is stated, rather than just your opinion) why does Cakewalk SI Drum Kit, Addictive Drums, EZ Drummer, Drumcore et al provide the ability to play built in drum patterns ?
    If it is not intended to record these, what other possible purpose would they be there for ?
    Please do enlighten me.
    However, it is very simple to do this in other DAWs (e.g. Samplitude).
    What an idiotic statement you made Kalle.
     
    @Kalle Rantaaho - before you go off on a flamer, read my post properly. I said
    <quote>
    I couldn't give a rat's arse whether I end up recording it to a midi or audio track, as long as I end up with a recorded guide drum track.
    </quote>
    So my question is not about creating an audio track per se.
    I am quite aware of how to build a midi track either by using a controller / keyboard or in the piano roll editor and then bounce it down to audio / freeze it, thank you.
    That is not the question I asked.
     
    <quote>
    It's not reasonable to start copy pasting the elementary parts of the help files here on the forum.
    </quote>
    Again totally inaccurate, I provided a link to a possible solution that I had tried and didn't work.
     
    <quote>
    This is also not the correct forum,
    </quote>
     
     Read my post properly, I said:
    <quote>
    * Apologies, I appear to have put this in the wrong Sonar Producer / Studio forum
    </quote>
    @Cactus Music - thank you for repeating something I already stated in my post. If I had the ability to move the post to the correct forum, I would have done so. No really.
     
    <quote>
    All of what Kalle is saying is correct. Don't feel bad, it is the most common mix up when people use  Sonar or any new software. We expect it to work the way we would have designed it. 
     There is no need to record the drums. You build your midi data tracks that will trigger the drums and play them back. When your song is finished and you export it to a standard wave file those sounds will play exactly like they did in Sonar ( with the correct settings enabled)
     
    <\quote>
    I already know how to do this. I prefer to use a quick and dirty drum track made from an inbuilt drum pattern so that I can get my ideas down quickly. Then I go go back afterwards to make drum tracks as you describe. It's how I work.
    Again, I refer you to the same point I made to Kalle. Are you both really saying that Toontrack, XLN and SI Drum kit have got it badly wrong by providing inbuilt rhythm patterns that 'shouldn't be recorded' ?
    Seriously ?
     
    <quote>
    It took me possibly 1000 hours to get a grasp on the parts of Sonar I need to use.There is still 50% of the features I have never used. This forum was where I learned 90% of what I needed to know. I visit every morning with my coffee and read all the new posts.
    </quote>
    Well, I need a DAW that supports my preferred way of working and workflow, not one that dictates how I 'should' work. If you wish to spend most of your time on internet forums that's up to you. Don't expect everyone else to conform to how you choose to live your life.
     
    <quote>
    Or switch now to Cubase or Studio 1 before you carry one any further. Each DAW has it's ups and downs so personlay <sic> I'd use what I have already paid for first.
    </quote>
    I said:
    <quote>
    return to Samplitude.
    </quote>
    Obviously this is something that Sonar X2 cannot do. That's all that needed to be said.
     
    Clearly, I was niaive to think I might actually get some assistance at this forum.
     
    post edited by Morticia - 2013/09/28 17:41:54
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/28 22:29:39 (permalink)
    ?
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2013/09/28 22:32:35

    Johnny V  
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    #5
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/29 05:22:57 (permalink)
    Oh Morticia, Morticia... what a fool you made of yourself :o/ :o/
    How can anyone take you seriously now?

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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    Morticia
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    Re: Sonar X2 Studio - record output from Cakewalk SI Drums built-in drum patterns 2013/09/29 17:13:25 (permalink)
    Kalle Rantaaho
    Oh Morticia, Morticia... what a fool you made of yourself :o/ :o/
    How can anyone take you seriously now?


     
    Do you get some sort of perverse pleasure by flaming / trolling genuine requests for assistance, without actually reading the posts properly ? You should get out more.
     
    Who is the fool Kalle ? Methinks you have a severe case of SPS.
    Platinum member ?  Really ?
     
    No worries, I got the answer I needed from another forum.
    #7
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