Recording In a Small Room

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BMOG
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2013/10/06 13:33:17 (permalink)

Recording In a Small Room

For the more experience producers in this forum, if you record in a small room do you have any wall treatments to help take away some of reflections of sound off the wall?  If so what do you use, I have always wondered if Egg crate foam would work as a cheap work around?
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    pbandit
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 13:53:26 (permalink)
    I think experienced producers would say forget it - you don't get professional
    results. I have also a small room and put a carpet on the floor and blanket on
    the wall. It's getting better but I was not happy. Since last week I spend
    money for an Auralex MudGuard. Now the result is Ok for me and my budget
     
    #2
    clintmartin
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 14:02:10 (permalink)
    There has been a lot on this subject. Search for Sound proofing or acoustic tiles. The techniques forum is where I went to ask. A good place to start...http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html 

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    jimusic
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 20:29:47 (permalink)
    Consider the option of making your own as well for reduced costs.



     
     
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    clintmartin
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 20:32:55 (permalink)
    ...or Ik Multimedia's ARC 2.

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    mudgel
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 20:39:43 (permalink)
    If you can't treat your room ARC is an excellent compromise. Notice I said compromise. Nothing beats proper room treatment but the smaller a room the bigger the battle to really control the quality of the audio produced in that room.

    I've used ARC since it's original release and find it works really well. If you can also do some room treatment to tame low end boom and unwanted reflections then your ARC experience will be even better. BUT I've used ARC in a completely untreated nearly cube room and was blown away by the results from ARC.

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    Paul P
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 22:46:47 (permalink)
    Hang out here for a short while and you'll learn everything that you can do, but in a small room it'll never be great.  If you're handy with tools you can do everything yourself.
     
    What you don't want is thin wall coverings that'll just kill the high end, taking all the life out of your sound, while leaving all the lower-end garbage.  For low frequencies, you need thick, like 6-12" (or you can use expensive damped metal sheets).
     
    If your small room has a large closet that you can take the doors off, that can be turned into a huge bass trap.
     

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    #7
    Sycraft
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 22:59:53 (permalink)
    As others have said, room correction software can help a lot. Personally I use Audyssey in a Denon receiver to do it, hence my somewhat odd soundcard choice. I do HDMI out to the receiver, it handles the room EQing and does an amazingly good job. ARC is Audyssey as a plugin. If you just need it on two channels and in a DAW, it is a cheap and easy way to get it. If you need surround, or want it on all sources, then you have to get a receiver with it and use HDMI. That is pricey, expect to spend $700 at least for one with MultEQ, and more like $2000 to get one with MultEQ XT32 like ARC has. Audyssey is worth it though, it is the first and only room correction I've heard that I really think does a good job. If you want to go the receiver route, look at Denon, they use Audyssey, have good hardware, and allow you to select a flat curve, as well as a re-EQ for cinema (some receivers only do a cinema curve).
     
    Past that, acoustic treatment helps a lot depending on how much you are willing to do. The Foam Factory is a good place for fairly economical wall stuff. Maybe not quite as good as Auralex, but good enough and pretty cheap. Only thing it doesn't handle is bass.
     
    Bass is, of course, the really difficult thing to deal with. Multiple subwoofers help (not for volume but for uniformity) as does bass trapping. However, to work well, bass trapping needs to be huge. GIK makes some of what you really want: Big traps you stick in the corners, floor to ceiling. That will do more to smooth out bass response than anything else. Pricey though, and of course they dominate the corners.
     
    If you go nuts and bass trap all the corners, coat the walls with foam and diffusors, have a thick carpet or rubber (like you find in a gym) flooring, and then do some room EQ, you can make things pretty good (though not perfect). Of course doing all that will be a few grand at least. I'm in the process of redoing a room in to my computer/studio room and it won't be cheap.
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    Rimshot
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/06 23:18:33 (permalink)
    If a small room is all you have (like me) then go for it!  Learn to treat the walls and use your ears.  Play back number 1 hits on your system to get to know what your speakers are telling you.  They probably are lying.  Test your mixes in your car and on your cheap earbuds.  Learn to use what you have if that's all you got!  Go for it.
     
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 05:02:19 (permalink)
    I don't think anyone has said this yet, but forget about egg crates!!!
     
    All they'll do is kill your high end and do nothing about the other 80% of the audio spectrum

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    markyzno
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 05:41:48 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    I don't think anyone has said this yet, but forget about egg crates!!!
     
    All they'll do is kill your high end and do nothing about the other 80% of the audio spectrum




    +1
    Egg crates are a myth!! As is straw and hay!!!

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    #11
    ston
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 06:54:59 (permalink)
    clintmartin
    ...or Ik Multimedia's ARC 2.


    That's just for monitoring though isn't it, i.e. it wouldn't help with recording (??)
     
    For my monitors/bedroom, I created my own 'ARC 2' and saved myself £185:
     

     
    That's a stack of 3x Parametrics and I'm using channel tools for a bit of make-up gain.  Gives me a pretty flat response for monitoring.  There's a couple of massive room modes at ~140Hz and ~220Hz.  The whole room rings like a nasty bell in the upper frequencies too hence the broader cut centered about 4KHz.  There's still a tiny bit of correction to be made around the tricky 85Hz region, but I can't do anything else with the EQs else they start ringing.  The above is in an FX Chain which I load into the master bus then forget about it.
     
    It's made a world of difference to my mixing, my mixes finally translate well to other playback situations (hifi, laptop headphones at work etc.)
     
     
    #12
    SvenArne
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 10:10:07 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    I don't think anyone has said this yet, but forget about egg crates!!!
     
    All they'll do is kill your high end and do nothing about the other 80% of the audio spectrum




    You use painted egg crates for diffusion (because of their shape), not absorbtion. They should have a broadband effect in theory, but I don't know how much difference (if any) they would make in a small room.





    #13
    djtrailmixxx
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 11:34:47 (permalink)
    You need to spend some time in this forum at Gearslutz: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/
    Lots of good information there.
     
    Watch lots of videos on Youtube as well: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=accoustic+treatment&oq=accousti&gs_l=youtube.3.0.35i39j0i10l9.79.1154.0.3154.7.7.0.0.0.0.172.707.4j3.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.Q0VdNWJIyQI
     
    You are better off informing yourself before you spend any money. Don't waste your money on foam, you are better off buying some Rockwool and/or OC 703 and wrapping with breathable cloth. You can start with a few pieces of DIY treatment and add more as you go.
     

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    Mistergreen
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 11:40:50 (permalink)
    djtrailmixxx
    You need to spend some time in this forum at Gearslutz: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/
    Lots of good information there.
     
    Watch lots of videos on Youtube as well: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=accoustic+treatment&oq=accousti&gs_l=youtube.3.0.35i39j0i10l9.79.1154.0.3154.7.7.0.0.0.0.172.707.4j3.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.Q0VdNWJIyQI
     
    You are better off informing yourself before you spend any money. Don't waste your money on foam, you are better off buying some Rockwool and/or OC 703 and wrapping with breathable cloth. You can start with a few pieces of DIY treatment and add more as you go.
     




    +1 on building your own acoustic panels.

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    WallyG
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 11:42:04 (permalink)
    BMOG
    For the more experience producers in this forum, if you record in a small room do you have any wall treatments to help take away some of reflections of sound off the wall?  If so what do you use, I have always wondered if Egg crate foam would work as a cheap work around?




    I used "Real Traps". Room originaly sounded like an echo chamber and usuable as a music room. After the installation of the Real Traps it was like night and day!
     
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    Razorwit
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 11:51:28 (permalink)
    Hi BMOG,
    Hm...you probably need to specify if you're referring to tracking or mixing when you say "recording in a small room". Tracking of instruments in small, treated rooms is done frequently and with good results. Even large multi-room studios track individual instruments (voice, guitar, bass) in small heavily treated rooms...they're just called iso booths (Whisper Rooms are super common in VO). In fact, in my experience, use of iso booths for amps and singers for bands that want to track multiple instruments simultaneously is extremely common. Dropping an amp or a singer in a booth happens all the time.
     
    If you are tracking in a small room you ABSOLUTELY want reflection control...usually lots of it.
     
    For mixing it's a bit different. Larger rooms are nice, and the rule is construction first, treatement second and EQ third. That is, first construct the room appropriately (dimension ratios matter here, as does square footage and wall placement), next treat, and finally EQ. Keep in mind that treatment is a poor substitute for construction, and EQ is a poor substitute for treatment, but they all support one another and there is always overlap. Bottom line: particularly for mixing, anyone that thinks that an 8x10x8 rectangular room with no treatment and ARC2 running on the 2-bus is just as good as a real mixing space is kidding themselves. You may be able to get reasonable mixes with some practice in that room, but a real mixing space will be WAY easier and almost certainly improve your results.
     
    Good luck,
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    SvenArne
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 14:09:07 (permalink)
    WallyG
     
     
    I used "Real Traps". Room originaly sounded like an echo chamber and usuable as a music room. After the installation of the Real Traps it was like night and day!
     
    Walt




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    WallyG
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/07 14:35:18 (permalink)
    SvenArne
    WallyG
     
     
    I used "Real Traps". Room originaly sounded like an echo chamber and usuable as a music room. After the installation of the Real Traps it was like night and day!
     
    Walt




    Nice place. Futurism + Accordion!




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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/08 04:52:36 (permalink)
    ston
    clintmartin
    ...or Ik Multimedia's ARC 2.


    That's just for monitoring though isn't it, i.e. it wouldn't help with recording (??)
     
    For my monitors/bedroom, I created my own 'ARC 2' and saved myself £185:
     

     
    That's a stack of 3x Parametrics and I'm using channel tools for a bit of make-up gain.  Gives me a pretty flat response for monitoring.  There's a couple of massive room modes at ~140Hz and ~220Hz.  The whole room rings like a nasty bell in the upper frequencies too hence the broader cut centered about 4KHz.  There's still a tiny bit of correction to be made around the tricky 85Hz region, but I can't do anything else with the EQs else they start ringing.  The above is in an FX Chain which I load into the master bus then forget about it.
     
    It's made a world of difference to my mixing, my mixes finally translate well to other playback situations (hifi, laptop headphones at work etc.)
     
     


    If you feel the need to add any more treatment, these guys are pretty cheap, and they sell a wide variety of foam-based solutions, all the way up to 100MM (4")


     http://www.acoustic-foam.co.uk/
     

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    #20
    jm24
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    Re: Recording In a Small Room 2013/10/08 13:53:06 (permalink)
    Many of the comments above are about treating the room (foam, panels, arc,...) for monitoring and mixing.
     
    I have used small rooms with lots of foam on the ceiling for drums. Way tight, little room sound.
      guitar amps with quick-made gobos
       vocals with quick-made gobos to reduce exterior noise,...
     
    The monitoring and mixing aspects of a small room are a different issue, although complimentary.
     
     
    #21
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