New group wants a tape

What's a tape?



Just kidding. That's a noble attitude you have. It will only cost you your time, so if you enjoy doing it, I say go for it.

Randy

When working for friends or friends of friends I have reluctantly accepted the idea that it is our responsibility to teach them what production costs.
 
It gives the musicians focus and purpose and you get better performances and a commitment to feedback during the post production.
 
It reveals the fact that almost everyone who says they don't have any money is using all their money on other stuff like sneakers and $9 beers. Eventually you get used to the idea that they will just as willingly spend money on if they are focused and committed.
 
I usually help friends by keeping track of the time at a fair rate and then demonstrate that I have written off some of the time if the friends or friends of friends remain focused and committed through out the process.
 
For me the pleasurable part is the overdub process and the final mixing while many bands assume that they will just jam out and you'll have fun recording them as they have all the fun.
 
If the band doesn't want to do overdubs to get the very best results then it is no fun for me, it is just work, and I charge accordingly.
 
I also have a firm policy that the multi tracks never get released for less than full rate. Period. I'm happy to multi track for people and let them take the tracks home to mix on their Pro Tools LE system. Full rate and you get access to all the hardware by the hour. It's a win, win.
 
I have found that a lot of bands that don't record often get burned out by the post process (the difficulties of which are inversely proportioned to their capabilities) and end up assuming they can grab the tracks and finish in their couch at home on their G3 tower. No problem. $.
 
Finally, if you speak to the band about this up front you can sense if they are focused and committed by their reaction to this proposal. Only a few out of every handful have the sense of purpose to do their best job. You can not force the ones that do not have a sense of purpose to work to your standards. You can save your self a lot of frustration by getting a sense for this as early as possible.
 
When you hook up with musician(s) that really do want to see stuff through to the finish then you can start negotiating per song or per project flat fees. I try to avoid that until I know that everyone is committed to having fun and seeing the project through to something you will be proud to have been part of.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

Well, my curiosity is perked here... what are you referring to as 'Make a Tape'? I am not trying to be sarcastic. Do you mean the entire recording project from recording to final product (CD)? Or just making duplicates of some existing product for them?
 
A lot of your question is dependent on actual physical product that may be required in producing the final product for them. It is one thing to 'pro-bono' your services to them, perhaps for acquiring experience in working with a group for example. So you may donate the time spent as personal experience. But when it comes down to actual costs involved for physical items (CDs, drinks, etc.), you deserve some compensation. I wouldn't be too liberal with them on that. Your 'customers' may not realize the little expenses involved that can add up quickly. 

gswitz
 It's good to make friends.
 

It's good to make money.

I started recording using actual tape at actual concerts and so to me, spinning tape means capturing a performance and making a tape means capturing and mixing it down for distribution of some sort.
 
These guys are very talented. They are older than me and regularly show up to old time jams at the local park that really are awesome. I go to them on occasion when I have time. Their talent is formidable.
 
They got my name from another super talented guy I made a tape for a while back. Showed up at his house with loads of gear not sure what to expect and it ended up being just two microphones, one on each instrument - hammer dulcimer and mandolin... hammer dulcimer eventually switched to guitar.
 
So, I'll talk to them and just feel it out. See what they think is fair. They are practicing tonight, and I'm invited to come see what's up. I thought I'd just bring a laptop and 10 mics and see what I get.
 
Maybe I'll leave some CDs so they know what I have considered an end-product in the past.
 
So now, I'm off to install X3 on my old retired laptop. :-)

Sounds like a good group of folks to work with.
 
I hope you have fun!
 
best regards,
mike

http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20131017_Gary_01_OldSoldierBoy.mp3
 
Here's the first take of the night.
 
I never mentioned money.

jamesg1213
If you don't charge them, or charge too little, it devalues and dilutes the worth of the business for everyone else. Might seem petty, but it can have a small knock-on effect which gets bigger down the line, and sooner or later other people have to start dropping their prices. You'd be charging for 'what you know' and the value of that should never be underestimated.
 

 
EXACTLY!!!
 
I have seen this happen to my own industry (my day gig) over the time I have been working in it. (22 years) When I was getting started most companies were charging a fair market value for home and business security systems. As time went on and companies merged and got bigger and got bank financing, the price in the field kept dropping. Now, you can get one for free in some cases.... in most cases, somewhere around $100.  Fact of the matter is my costs for a keypad can be that much not counting the panel and other devices. There's no way I can even come close to the price of the nationals and keep my doors open.
 
But the end customer with whom I set down and speak with, thinks I should be matching the prices they see on TV. Their perceived value of a security system is about $100... and here I am selling a custom system that is easily over 4 figures. Believe it or not, after speaking with them about their security needs and explaining service after the sale and why that is important, I still get my fair share of the work..... so never underestimate your value.

gswitz
They are asking me to help make six demos. I feel like a kid neighbor afraid to ask for ten bucks for mowing the grass.

Well you wanted friends...I bet all the ones trying to make a living recording luv ya.

gswitz
Yeah spacey, I'm getting the impression that my union friends are scowling.

LOL...
 
If I enjoyed doing it and it helped me learn and helped some musicians too I'd go for it.
I wouldn't consider anything that I could do a threat to those that are making a living at it anyway.
 
I listened to a cut before heading out to work this morning and I think it was great recording
and imagine they sure appreciate your skills and effort.
 
 

Batsbrew....
You're comment is actually really helpful. It gave me the idea to help them make a group recording that I then load into my old Tascam and teach them to record their takes in it. Then they can pass the Tascam around each playing their takes into it. This might be a great way to get lots of takes and sufficient isolation without having them in my house the whole time.
 
We'll see. I'm not sure this group is up to the learning curve.