robotecho
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Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
I'm currently looking at upgrading my midi keyboard to a midi keyboard / control surface. I'm fairly set on either an M-Audio Axiom 61 or a Novation Impulse 61. I haven't tried either and the keyboard action will be a big factor in my choice. However the other major factor will be how easy it is to get working reliably with Sonar. I've had a search through the forums, and I didn't find much current definitive information on how well these units integrate, but I found enough information to get me slightly worried about it. Novation state compatibility with Sonar, but I'd be interested to know how this translates into the real world. Basically I'm after some recommendations from people who have experience getting either of these units to work with Sonar, or any alternatives worth considering. I'm on X2 at the moment, but will probably upgrade to X3 eventually.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:00:58
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jb101
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 07:03:18
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I have an A-300pro by Cakewalk (now by Roland AFAIK) and am very pleased with it. It's integration with Sonar is near perfect.
The other thing I like about the A-300 is the number of keys. It has a few more than most small controllers that, I find, makes it a lot more useful.
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Mystic38
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 07:19:04
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☄ Helpfulby robotecho 2013/10/21 22:24:29
if action is of a concern, I think you would be better off with a used Novation SLII, or even SLI if that better fits your budget. The keybed in the SLII is from Fatar and significantly better than either of those you mentioned.
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 19:19:57
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Thanks for the responses guys. jb101 I have an A-300pro by Cakewalk (now by Roland AFAIK) and am very pleased with it. It's integration with Sonar is near perfect.
The other thing I like about the A-300 is the number of keys. It has a few more than most small controllers that, I find, makes it a lot more useful.
I guess that should have been obvious! So I guess its fair to say for easy compatibility out of the box, this series is the way to go? I like the form factor of the A800PRO, it would fit the space I have better, although the compromise is travel / size of the controllers. I'm not too keen on the stick either. I've got this thing in my head about going for a semi-weighted action, but I'm in two minds. I tried an M-Audio Keystation, its the only semi-weighted action I've tried, and it was horrendous. Not like a natural piano action in any way, it worked against you, so light playing became difficult. This is the opposite of what I'm looking for, I want something that enables a light touch. If this is what all these 'semi-weighted' actions are like, the Roland could be a real contender, because I know I'm guaranteed a good playable synth action. Mystic38 if action is of a concern, I think you would be better off with a used Novation SLII, or even SLI if that better fits your budget. The keybed in the SLII is from Fatar and significantly better than either of those you mentioned.
Its a little over budget, but if the action is really special I could maybe save my pennies. Only thing is the stick again. So with the Novation, and Automap 4, can anyone confirm that if I set up Automap 4 following the instructions for Sonar X1 (which reading other posts is what you need to do) I'll get good reliable and permanent control of transport, faders etc, thats comparable to say the Roland series mentioned above? I'm leaning toward Novation but I don't want to get stung by poor integration with Sonar X2. I can live with reasonable but not perfect integration, as long as it is consistent and the basics are covered.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:02:35
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jb101
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 20:08:28
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☄ Helpfulby robotecho 2013/10/21 22:24:16
I already have several keyboards, some weighted, some semi-weighted. All I wanted was a smaller keyboard I could have in front of my DAW for trying out parts, and using as a controller. The Cakewalk A-300 Pro fit that bill nicely, and the extra keys made it more useful than the average mini keyboard. The action is better than most of the M-Audio/Novation types, but was not as good as the other Roland keyboards that I own. I had the first Cakewalk A-300 in England AFAIK. Maybe the Roland version is different. It doesn't feel as plastic-y as the other offerings, but it's certainly not up to the feel of a good weighted action, or a pro semi-weighted. I use other keyboards for that, but it does feel better than anything I've tried from M-Audio or Novation. YMMV, of course.
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 20:19:07
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Thanks jb101. Whatever I choose will be it for me, my space is pretty tight. I'm currently using a 48 key 'Quickshot' midi controller, which is old, outdated, but perfectly sufficient for its purpose. So I want the extra octave, a little more lux action, and a lot more control of the DAW. It may well turn out that a good synth action is all I can afford, if the cheap semi-weighted actions are all a wash.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:02:48
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jb101
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 20:27:42
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In that case I would seriously consider the A-500Pro.
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icontakt
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 20:43:27
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☄ Helpfulby robotecho 2013/10/21 22:24:23
I like my A-800Pro, but there are things you might want to know before making your decision:
- understanding how A-Pro itself, A-Pro Editor and A-Pro Control Surface Plugin work isn't easy - the dynamic pads aren't good for drumming (I don't use them for drumming so it's not a problem for me) - aftertouch sensitivity/curve isn't good (I use an expression pedal for modulation, etc. so it's ok with me) - the black and white keys have slightly different velocity sensitivity at the velocity value of around 120 and above (due to the material used for key chassis, but I've never heard anyone else mention this so you probably won't notice it) - the keys are somewhat shorter than those of the standard keyboard (would've been nice if the standard size had been adopted but I'm ok with this size)
Hope that helps
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 22:20:46
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Jlien X Hope that helps
No it doesn't! Arrrrgh! (This morning I wasn't even thinking of the A800, now its become the front runner) I had wondered how practical the pads would be. So do I need to understand how the control surface works? Shouldn't it work out of the box on Sonar? I'm a programmer, so I can get my head around this stuff, but when I'm recording I really hate getting that granular with the technology. I like it all to just work for me, as much as possible. I'm expecting a bit of a fight with the M-Audio or Novation, but I would have thought the Roland option would be hassle free?
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:03:00
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jdownin
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 23:03:11
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☄ Helpfulby robotecho 2013/10/21 23:38:37
I have the A 300 and like it when working with tracks, but have some trouble getting it to work with synths. I have tried ACT and midi learn and they don't always work. Sounds like I might need to explore the editor a little more. Check out Cakewalk Keyboard Controllers & Sound Modules forum for some helpful posts on all the A Pro Keyboards.
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/21 23:38:22
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I guess part of my problem is I don't yet know what I might discover I want, once I work out I don't have it, but could have. If that makes sense. jdown Check out Cakewalk Keyboard Controllers & Sound Modules forum for some helpful posts on all the A Pro Keyboards.
Will do. Cheers.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:03:12
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mettelus
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 00:07:29
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I have not had much success with control surfaces, and find that I end up using a controller just to get notes into SONAR 99.99% of the time. All of the knobs and sliders look enticing, but the bottom line is the keys themselves. Be sure to invest some time at a music shop playing the ones you are considering before you buy one (especially if key action is important to you).
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musichoo
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 01:18:22
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I have a A500Pro and I felt that Roland has stop improving it's support for this series. It works quite well with Sonar's vst plugins and instrument. But it is not always working as advertise with third party plugins. Very difficult to reprogram a vst knobs and sliders with the APro. The operation Manual is not very helpful. It's aftertouch is almost useless. The 8 pads are not enough and too small for me. I have better luck reprogram my Korg Krome 4 knobs to link with vsts. However I do like it's keyboard feel. Consider I am a pianist by training. Would I recommend this to anyone? The answer is no until Roland has updated it's manual or posted more instructional video.
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Stipes Vigilo
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 04:25:23
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Any of them are fine, not that much different in keybed feel really IMO. The question I would ask is what in Sonar you plan to use besides the Sonar Plugins. Certain Sample based Instruments just work better with the pitch & mod wheels over the joystick. And then there's the matter of aftertouch, which may not even matter for how you play into the DAW, but if it does, only the Roland A-xxxPro's and Novations will do that. There's also the Akai that no one has mentioned. There are things I don't like about everyone of those mentioned, but if I needed one immediately, I think I would go with the Novation Impulse. And I think I might have seen Sweetwater selling some 'B' stock cheaper too you may want to check out?
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Mystic38
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 04:58:25
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if key action is important, then imo you simply wont get a better feel that the Novation SLII... hands down superior to anything at or less than its price that I have seen or tried...including all the Maudio, Akai and Roland line. I certainly suggest you try it before you buy anything (try them all, just make the ones you like are plugged into something) robotecho Thanks for the responses guys. [
Mystic38 if action is of a concern, I think you would be better off with a used Novation SLII, or even SLI if that better fits your budget. The keybed in the SLII is from Fatar and significantly better than either of those you mentioned.
Its a little over budget, but if the action is really special I could maybe save my pennies. Only thing is the stick again. So with the Novation, and Automap 4, can anyone confirm that if I set up Automap 4 following the instructions for Sonar X1 (which reading other posts is what you need to do) I'll get good reliable and permanent control of transport, faders etc, thats comparable to say the Roland series mentioned above? I'm leaning toward Novation but I don't want to get stung by poor integration with Sonar X2. I can live with reasonable but not perfect integration, as long as it is consistent and the basics are covered.
regarding "that stick again".. the SLII has a switch that can disable the spring on the mod (Y axis), so while it is not separate, dedicated pitch and mod wheels, you can set a static mod amount so its not as restrictive as a sprung to centre action.
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vmw
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 09:29:06
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I have plenty of 61 keys with the usual controls & vel sense pads. But I am going to buy M-Audio 88 Key es for the simple reason of where control keys are situated in most kontakt instrument keybooards. Sick of scrolling, patching in 2nd keyboard or splitting keyboard into zones. so not worried about any actual on board controls except the obvious universal ones.
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 20:16:22
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Hi vmw, how will the Keystation 88 help with that? I use a lot of NI stuff so I'd be interested in what advantage you see there. As I've said, I'm not a fan of the Keystation action.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:03:31
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robotecho
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Re: Most Compatible MIDI Keyboard Controller for Sonar X2 / X3
2013/10/22 20:23:49
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Mystic38 I certainly suggest you try it before you buy anything (try them all, just make the ones you like are plugged into something)
Problem is, I'm in a regional area about 90 minutes out of Sydney in Australia. I get into Sydney every week or two for business, but it's hard to find a one stop shop where I can try all of these boards. If any Sydney-siders know of a really big music store that has a lot or all of these controllers available to try, I'd love to know. When I'm in Sydney I'm pretty mobile so I can get to most areas, although South or West of the CBD is best. Mystic38 regarding "that stick again".. the SLII has a switch that can disable the spring on the mod (Y axis), so while it is not separate, dedicated pitch and mod wheels, you can set a static mod amount so its not as restrictive as a sprung to centre action.
That's a neat feature, makes a difference. My first keyboards were Roland SH-09 and then a Juno-6, so I was totally OK with that style of bender then, but after some DX's and the early Ensoniq boards I got fairly set on the two wheel setup. I could probably adapt.
post edited by robotecho - 2013/10/27 22:03:45
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