OldGuy
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[Resolved] Newbie problem with external VSTs
I have X2 Producer 64bit and a Focusrite 18i20 interface. I get clean sound when using any soft synths that came with producer. However, if I use any external VST, i get serious distortion. The distortion increases exponentially with the number of notes played simultaneously. This didn't happen when I initially installed these VSTs, so I probably did or changed something. As a newbie, I have no idea where to start looking. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
post edited by Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] - 2013/10/28 22:35:45
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gswitz
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 16:02:23
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Sounds like you're clipping. Is the output from your VST really hot (high signal)?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 17:31:31
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You could try turning down the gain nob some. If you turn down the gain nob on the track and your problem goes away, clipping might be the issue.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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OldGuy
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 19:05:44
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That was the first thing I ruled out (should have mentioned that). The distortion is there even if the gain on the VST is almost off. Turning down the track gain doesn't help either. I think the "offending" VSTs are 32-bit. I'm running 64-bit X2. Could this be the cause? I guess I can install the 32-bit version and make find out. But I doubt it since these VSTs all worked fine when I installed them.
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gswitz
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 20:11:17
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hmmm. I definitely don't have this problem... so.. how would I trouble shoot? If you route the signal you plan to send to the VST to a bus, you can check the level on the input to the bus.. route that bus to another bus and put the VST on it. What VST are we talking about? All non-Sonar VSTs? We need some path through which we can try to isolate the issue. I suppose it's isolated if you click the power button on the effect -- turning it off -- and the distortion goes away -- click the power button -- distortion returns. Right?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 20:12:24
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What are your PC Specs? Are you using ASIO driver model? (like in the sound settings in preferences, did you pick ASIO?). Thanks!
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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robotecho
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 21:45:26
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As gswitz said, definitely check your drivers under "Edit" > "Preferences" > "Playback and Recording" > "Driver Mode", and make sure you are using ASIO. Also check your soundcard setup. I came back to Sonar recently and had distortion on VSTs, and this was the cause. Sonar defaulted to WDM. I was surprised to hear distortion because of this, I would have expected latency or dropouts.
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OldGuy
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/27 23:18:38
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Thanks for the feedback. Here are the specs and settings (maybe overkill) Computer: HP H9-1170 - AMD FX-8150 Eight-Core Processor 3.6 GHz with 10 gig ram - Win7 Home Premium Playback and Recording settings: Driver Mode: ASIO Dithering: Triangular Use Multiprocessing Engine Use MMCSS no other boxes are checked Command audition length: 3 seconds ASIO Panel USB Buffer Size: 10ms ASIO Default Sample Rate 44100 ASIO Default Buffer Size: 32 samples ASIO Input Latency: 22.5 ms ASIO Output Latency: 22.5 ms ASIO Total Latency: 45 MS I will also check with Focusrite to see if they have any suggestions.
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shmuelyosef
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 00:42:04
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Open up the MixControl panel (the driver controller for your FocusRite) and check the buffer size...if you are really only using 32 samples that might be the problem, although I would expect much smaller latency. I have a much less powerful (on paper) computer than you Core Duo 3GHz with 4GB RAM, and I use the 512 sample buffer setting...getting ~25msec round-trip latency. In the panel, pull down <Settings> and look for <Latency> (set to Medium) and <Buffer size> (set to 256 or 512). These should be 'safe' settings with tolerable performance. I have a Saffire PRO 40 and it is pretty touchy about the 'sweet spot' Also, when I upgraded to X3, it didn't copy my settings perfectly from X1 (set drivers to WDM), and I had some problems before some nice person here on the forum pointed it out;...funny that I actually fell into the old habit of hitting the Wave Profiler button, without realizing that this is NOT an ASIO function....duuuhhhhh
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simpleman
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 01:33:20
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OldGuy The distortion increases exponentially with the number of notes played simultaneously.
You can be getting CPU over-loading as per dealing with 'soft synths'. Looking first outside of Sonar for--- anti-virus software or any other terminal and stay residential software (HP installs apps to monitor your system)---disable wireless/Bluetooth---disable built in sound card--your video card is not primed for game playing (turn-off 3D accelerators and stuff)
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Mystic38
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 11:07:00
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without over analyzing or overthinking a possible cause, for sure its an easy test to set your ASIO buffer size to 256 or 512 samples to see if it goes away.. I don't know many systems with rock solid performance across the board at 32 samples.
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gswitz
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 11:25:30
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If you increase your sample buffer to the maximum, does the distortion go away?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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swamptooth
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 13:01:22
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If i know what synths you are using i can run some checks and see if i can replicate the problem. More info=better and faster solutions.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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OldGuy
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 19:47:20
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ISSUE RESOLVED! Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. I changed buffer size to 128 samples and the distortion was much worse. I changed to 512 samples and it disappeared. The cost is a tad more latency than I want. But I hope some fine tuning can reduce that or learn to live with it Many thanks again for all the suggestions.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/28 22:34:49
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Are you sure you're running the latest drivers for your card? 32 samples giving you 45msec of latency at 44.1KHz should be an impossible combination of figures no matter what else is going on. And 512 samples seems a bit excessive for a decently specced system like yours.
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2:43AM
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Re: Newbie problem with external VSTs
2013/10/29 05:47:40
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Also, what was your buffer latency set to in MixControl--short, medium or long? If short, then that will seriously tax your CPU.
And could you please clarify what you meant by "external VST?"
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