michael diemer
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I Beg To Dither
What the heck is dithering all about? Should I care? The Sonar Help feature isn't doing me any good. Should I select none, rectangular, etc? I use Sonar exclusively for midi, but I'm doing full orchestra with several synths going (Play, Aria and Vienna). AMD dual core, 3 GHz; 8 GB Ram 500 GB WD Blue, external 500 GB Glyph EWSO Gold, GPO, Vienna Sp. Ed. 1 M-Audio 2496 sound card
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 16:24:04
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When you export the project to audio from a higher bit rate to, say, 16 bits for CD, you need to use dithering to "fill in the bit-gaps". I use Powr-3 IIRC.
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gswitz
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 16:46:28
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Dithering is a way of pushing down the noise floor a couple more dB. It is more of a best practice than audible at today's bit depths.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/10/28 17:00:36
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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michael diemer
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 19:05:29
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I see. It doesn't affect what you do when you are working, just when you export. I've been using power 2, is there any benefit to going to power 3?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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gswitz
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 19:19:56
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The different dithers have more volume in different frequencies. They all add roughly the same amount of noise but different dithers are shaped differently and therefore harder to hear and appear quieter. I export files at 24 bit making the dither pretty irrelevant. At sixteen bit, there could be moments where the dither is audible.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/10/28 19:31:21
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 19:58:45
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You can see the shapes of the dithers if you export silence to a Wave file using the dither, then re-import the wav and normalize it. Then, play it and turn it up so you can hear the noise. You can also but a Freq Analyst on it so you can see where the noise is more and where it is less for the particular algorithm. This one is Power 3.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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michael diemer
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/28 23:53:04
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When the dither is audible, what does it sound like?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/29 05:06:37
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Cactus Music
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/29 18:24:05
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Think of it as the New Dolby Noise reduction for digital music. The more I read up on it, the more I decided it was only important for people who are working in a much higher realm of quality than a hack like me. I have therefore stayed in 44.1 for recording and add a little power 3 to my exports. Sonar process in 32 bit so we kinda have to export with dither, but I bet if you compared a dithered and a none dithered song no body will hear a difference.
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michael diemer
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/29 22:00:56
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I suspected as much. So maybe I'll just choose "none." Why use CPU needlessly? thanks for that, Cactus.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/30 06:31:14
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If you're happy to live with quantization distortion then go ahead and don't use it. As for "using cpu needlessly", this seems to me a very naive appreciation about what dither is all about and also, the amount of cpu overhead used when using any of the popular dithering algorithms is absolutely miniscule. Choosing not to dither when bit reducing is akin to leaving the gray off a microwaved roast dinner in terms of power saving. Not the best analogy I know, but it doesn't cost you anything to use dither and you run the risk of introducing audible distortion into your otherwise pristine recordings.
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gswitz
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/30 07:28:50
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I don't think it's like Dolby. Dolby boosted the very high end of the sound above the noise level on the tape and then when you play it back with Dolby On you suppress the same freq range aligning the original signal and suppressing the high end tape noise. The problem with this was that if you played it back with Dolby off (or the wrong dolby) you could just get extra tape hiss. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH DITHER. When you Dither appropriately, you get better sound on all playback environments no matter the settings on the device doing the playback. Dither suppresses the noise floor by randomizing it and spreading it over a greater frequency band (like the audible range). DITHER WILL MAKE YOUR RECORDINGS BETTER. Use Dither when changing Bit Depth (like 32 to 24 or 24 to 16). Don't use Dither when going from 88.2 Samples per Sec to 44.1. I have sources that say going from 48 to 44.1 use dither and others that say don't. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Audio-Explained-For-Engineer/dp/141960001X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383132288&sr=8-2&keywords=sweetwater+digital+recording This book says it is appropriate to use dither when changing sample rates where the sample rate is NOT an even division... like 48 to 44.1 but not 88.2 to 44.1. Basically, since it adds the slightest bit of white noise, you want to avoid it where it is not necessary. So, for this reason, I add Dither when going from 32 bit mixdown's to export to 24 bit waves. I usually change sample rate and bit depth at the same time.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/30 13:23:21
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 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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michael diemer
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/30 13:51:41
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OK, I guess I will use it. Actually, I already have been. I just couldn't decide what setting to use, so I tried to use one in the middle, like power one or two. I guess I'll continue doing that. I only got concerned about CPU because the sonar help files mention it.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: I Beg To Dither
2013/10/30 17:25:04
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Michael, even if it did have cpu implications, it's only for the short amount of time while you're doing your export (or bounce, I suppose) so in the real world, it matters very little
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