Gregmang
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Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
Hi Everybody - I've been a user since Pro Audio days and please believe me when I say I sorta know what I'm doing, have decent equipment and all that jive. However I firmly have come to believe there are serious problems with the X3(C) patch. Since I installed the "C" patch - 1. Ran into the now infamous Console Emulator "what the hell is that noise ?" bug. Applied workaround (uncheck 64-bit processing ). Odd but works. BTW - this chewed up a few hours. 2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline. 3. Opened up the ORIGINAL Project A in X2(b). Substantiated Breverb on exact same vox PC buss (because I am a glutton for punishment evidently). No problems. Finished mixing, mastering, shipped to customer. Happy customer. Yay. 4. Because as I mentioned earlier I am a glutton for punishment I (hours later - as in 30 mins ago) I opened up Project B in X3(c) for another customer (with no looming timetable). Spent a good deal of time reworking a lot of honestly shoddy tracks and got them sounding good enough to export. CTRL-A time. And it froze. I've NEVER had any Cakewalk DAW freeze on me when doing a CTRL-A prior to export. WTF ?? Holding my breathe I went to my autosave and got....drumroll please....the "truncated file" message. 5. Opened up ORIGINAL Project B in X2(b). Performed pretty much the same mixing (btw - by this time I was NOT happy to have to recreate what I had already accomplished the previous 1.5 hours). CTRL-A, export, load into my mastering toys and voila. Completed. Yay. The score ? Sonar X2(b) 64 bit - 2, Sonar X3(c) 64 bit - 0 Guys - what the heck is going on ? Bakers - would it assist you if I sent one of the "truncated" autosave .cwp's ? Argh.... PS I had forgotten how much I liked the track header color change when you selected a track in X2(b). Can we please get it back in X3 ?
post edited by Gregmang - 2013/11/01 20:24:00
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dramelot
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 20:46:21
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Interesting to me. Fractalite and Long time Cake user.
Narrow it down to Breverb?
Getting ready to move from X2 to 3.
Old plugins?
These issues always pop up for me on upgrades.
X2b is very stable for me right now.
Uncheck 64 bit?? to get clean sound??
Not good
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studio343
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:02:50
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OK can I ask this.... is there a way until these issues are fixed by the bakers to painlessly revert back to X3b? Seems many if these problems stem from X3c that were otherwise not a problem in X3b. Will repatching X3b work?
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Lynn
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:22:45
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studio343
OK can I ask this.... is there a way until these issues are fixed by the bakers to painlessly revert back to X3b? Seems many if these problems stem from X3c that were otherwise not a problem in X3b. Will repatching X3b work?
If you have a system restore point prior to your download of X3c, that'll get you back to X3b in about 10 minutes or so.
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bapu
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:31:22
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Gregmang
Guys - what the heck is going on ?
Inadequate project backups before trying a new patch/release?
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bapu
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:34:32
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2013/11/02 14:08:17
Lynn
studio343
OK can I ask this.... is there a way until these issues are fixed by the bakers to painlessly revert back to X3b? Seems many if these problems stem from X3c that were otherwise not a problem in X3b. Will repatching X3b work?
If you have a system restore point prior to your download of X3c, that'll get you back to X3b in about 10 minutes or so.
I've discovered a quicker/easier way, IMHO. Before applying any patch.... copy "{your-path}Cakewalk\SONAR X3 Producer" and "{your-path}Cakewalk\Shared Utilities" folders somewhere safe. Restore those if the applied patch is suspect.
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studio343
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:37:39
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that's a great idea!! thanks. Shame though we would have to resort to that. Any chance that the baskets are working feverishly on these issues and a fix is imminent? bapu
Lynnstudio343
OK can I ask this.... is there a way until these issues are fixed by the bakers to painlessly revert back to X3b? Seems many if these problems stem from X3c that were otherwise not a problem in X3b. Will repatching X3b work?
If you have a system restore point prior to your download of X3c, that'll get you back to X3b in about 10 minutes or so.
I've discovered a quicker/easier way, IMHO. Before applying any patch.... copy "{your-path}Cakewalk\SONAR X3 Producer" and "{your-path}Cakewalk\Shared Utilities" folders somewhere safe. Restore those if the applied patch is suspect.
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bapu
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 21:41:58
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studio343
Any chance that the baskets are working feverishly on these issues and a fix is imminent?
I have no idea if they are. Since the presence of the bakers on the forum is quite high in recent days one can hope.
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icontakt
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 22:00:30
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☄ Helpfulby dramelot 2013/11/01 22:15:25
Gregmang
PS I had forgotten how much I liked the track header color change when you selected a track in X2(b). Can we please get it back in X3 ?
You just need to go to Preferences > Customization > Colors and uncheck the "Show strip colors." The track strips are still color-coded (the leftmost section only) so I think it's better than X2a. Btw, why do people type X2b when they mean X2a? This is the third time I witnessed it. 
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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dramelot
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/01 22:17:47
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Helpful hint on ontrack header,
Sorry Yes X2a, for me, duh
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lfm
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 05:14:06
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bapu
Lynn
studio343
OK can I ask this.... is there a way until these issues are fixed by the bakers to painlessly revert back to X3b? Seems many if these problems stem from X3c that were otherwise not a problem in X3b. Will repatching X3b work?
If you have a system restore point prior to your download of X3c, that'll get you back to X3b in about 10 minutes or so.
I've discovered a quicker/easier way, IMHO.
Before applying any patch....
copy "{your-path}Cakewalk\SONAR X3 Producer" and "{your-path}Cakewalk\Shared Utilities" folders somewhere safe. Restore those if the applied patch is suspect.
Or, can't you activate multiple backups and just use revert thingy? Very useful. It's on one of the Advanced sections in preferences. EDIT: my bad - it was about patch reverting, not project reverting. Save a couple of times, and then apply new patch to have something to revert to.
post edited by lfm - 2013/11/02 05:48:18
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cowboydan
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 05:16:25
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Please people.
When fixes and new toys are inserted in an older basic program,( X2's upgrade to X3) the old shell is used and new things added. There will always be an occasional collision between the two and cake is going way beyond expectations as far as working with us to get this straightened out as fast as possible.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 05:40:44
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I've had point 4 on X3b too. Very frustrating. Generally speaking, what with the initial Waves issue, I've become very trigger happy on my CTRL+S.
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 10:42:43
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Gregmang
Since I installed the "C" patch -
1. Ran into the now infamous Console Emulator "what the hell is that noise ?" bug. Applied workaround (uncheck 64-bit processing ). Odd but works. BTW - this chewed up a few hours.
Yes, it chewed up a few hours on our end too. We are on this, and are aware of it's existence. Gregmang
2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline.
That is a frustrating experience, especially when working on a deadline. Sometimes the paranoid engineer in my head constantly tells me to version my projects manually so that I physically see the project save correctly. Is this specific to SONAR X3? Or has this happened to you in other versions? Gregmang
3. Opened up the ORIGINAL Project A in X2(b). Substantiated Breverb on exact same vox PC buss (because I am a glutton for punishment evidently). No problems. Finished mixing, mastering, shipped to customer. Happy customer. Yay.
Cool, I'm glad to see that you were able to find a workaround. Could you forward me the problematic project so that I can take a look at it? Gregmang
4. Because as I mentioned earlier I am a glutton for punishment I (hours later - as in 30 mins ago) I opened up Project B in X3(c) for another customer (with no looming timetable). Spent a good deal of time reworking a lot of honestly shoddy tracks and got them sounding good enough to export. CTRL-A time. And it froze. I've NEVER had any Cakewalk DAW freeze on me when doing a CTRL-A prior to export. WTF ?? Holding my breathe I went to my autosave and got....drumroll please....the "truncated file" message.
See my response to 2 and 3. How many clips do you have in this session? How many tracks were you freezing at the same time? Also, how many plugins do you have running in this session? Gregmang
5. Opened up ORIGINAL Project B in X2(b). Performed pretty much the same mixing (btw - by this time I was NOT happy to have to recreate what I had already accomplished the previous 1.5 hours). CTRL-A, export, load into my mastering toys and voila. Completed. Yay.
Recreating projects is not fun, have you ever tried manually dragging and dropping a project into a new project to troubleshoot what the cause of the crash is? -Make a new project -Go to the Media Browser -Select the "Move Up One Level" button until you get to your C Drive -Locate your Cakewalk Projects folder -Locate problematic project file -Drag and Drop it into your current project, do the problems persist? This could be a configuration thing between the two versions. Did you migrate your settings from SONAR X2 to SONAR X3? Also, how are your buffer size settings look. Lastly, we may or may not be able to take a look at the crash. Did you send a problem report or a ticket into Technical Support? -DG
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Splat 
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 11:51:19
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I've discovered a quicker/easier way, IMHO.
Before applying any patch....
copy "{your-path}Cakewalk\SONAR X3 Producer" and "{your-path}Cakewalk\Shared Utilities" folders somewhere safe. Restore those if the applied patch is suspect.
Not advisable, that won't be clean for a restore. You haven't considered other files that may be copied and what happens with the registry, any interference from other applications later on. You can't beat full backups (i.e. clone your hard drive beforehand) and the patches + Windows ability to roll back. Also a good idea to back up your project folders.
Cheers
Alex
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Funkybot
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 12:11:50
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☄ Helpfulby Gregmang 2013/11/02 15:04:16
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Gregmang
2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline.
That is a frustrating experience, especially when working on a deadline. Sometimes the paranoid engineer in my head constantly tells me to version
Dan, I'm sorry, you guys have done, and are still doing a lot of good things in X3, but you have to address the easily corrupted projects in Sonar as a high priority before, or with X4. There is simply no excuse for how easily users can end up with corrupt project files in Sonar. A majority of users on this forum will reply with, "that's why you gotta backup regularly" or "that's why I never autosave and hit Ctrl+S constantly" or some variation on "blame the user" (there's some already on this thread), but the fact of the matter is it's far too easy for Sonar to corrupt files and your user-base has become so used to these issues that they've conditioned themselves to work around it. Honestly, in my using Reaper and Studio One (which I've spent a lot of time in lately, more than Sonar other than the last week), I've never given this any thought and never had a corrupted project. When I've gone into studios and worked on Pro Tools, same thing: it never came up. I mixed an album in Logic at friend's place, I never backed up, he never mentioned it either, no corrupted project files at any point. Maybe that's just luck (it's certainly anecdotal evidence, yes), but I have to think this is something Sonar can improve upon. Maybe 1) shut down the audio engine during saves for added safety, 2) add a check to the save routine to make sure the project isn't corrupt before committing changes, 3) look into creating a new project file format that's less prone to corruption (Reaper's project files are actually text files that can be edited in Notepad if needed), or something else. Fixing this, would go a long way towards addressing some major stability concerns. And I bring this up not to criticize, but rather to shed some light on an area where I think you guys can still improve Sonar.
Intel i7 4790k, ASUS Z97-A mobo, 16GB Kingston DDR3 RAM, Windows 10 x64, UAD2 Duo, RME Fireface 800, Sonar X1/X2 Producer
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 13:20:20
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Funkybot
Dan, I'm sorry, you guys have done, and are still doing a lot of good things in X3, but you have to address the easily corrupted projects in Sonar as a high priority before, or with X4. There is simply no excuse for how easily users can end up with corrupt project files in Sonar. A majority of users on this forum will reply with, "that's why you gotta backup regularly" or "that's why I never autosave and hit Ctrl+S constantly" or some variation on "blame the user" (there's some already on this thread), but the fact of the matter is it's far too easy for Sonar to corrupt files and your user-base has become so used to these issues that they've conditioned themselves to work around it.
+1 to that And I'd like to add bringing projects and also templates over from previous versions - you got all these usable templates set up from previous projects and then a new version is released; when you run into problem you're eventually asked if that was created with the latest version or not - in case of using templates you never start from scratch with the latest version ... so, you're never on the save side ???
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Gregmang
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 13:26:35
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Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Gregmang
Since I installed the "C" patch -
1. Ran into the now infamous Console Emulator "what the hell is that noise ?" bug. Applied workaround (uncheck 64-bit processing ). Odd but works. BTW - this chewed up a few hours.
Yes, it chewed up a few hours on our end too. We are on this, and are aware of it's existence.
Gregmang
2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline.
That is a frustrating experience, especially when working on a deadline. Sometimes the paranoid engineer in my head constantly tells me to version my projects manually so that I physically see the project save correctly. Is this specific to SONAR X3? Or has this happened to you in other versions?
Gregmang
3. Opened up the ORIGINAL Project A in X2(b). Substantiated Breverb on exact same vox PC buss (because I am a glutton for punishment evidently). No problems. Finished mixing, mastering, shipped to customer. Happy customer. Yay.
Cool, I'm glad to see that you were able to find a workaround. Could you forward me the problematic project so that I can take a look at it?
Gregmang
4. Because as I mentioned earlier I am a glutton for punishment I (hours later - as in 30 mins ago) I opened up Project B in X3(c) for another customer (with no looming timetable). Spent a good deal of time reworking a lot of honestly shoddy tracks and got them sounding good enough to export. CTRL-A time. And it froze. I've NEVER had any Cakewalk DAW freeze on me when doing a CTRL-A prior to export. WTF ?? Holding my breathe I went to my autosave and got....drumroll please....the "truncated file" message.
See my response to 2 and 3. How many clips do you have in this session? How many tracks were you freezing at the same time? Also, how many plugins do you have running in this session?
Gregmang
5. Opened up ORIGINAL Project B in X2(b). Performed pretty much the same mixing (btw - by this time I was NOT happy to have to recreate what I had already accomplished the previous 1.5 hours). CTRL-A, export, load into my mastering toys and voila. Completed. Yay.
Recreating projects is not fun, have you ever tried manually dragging and dropping a project into a new project to troubleshoot what the cause of the crash is?
-Make a new project
-Go to the Media Browser
-Select the "Move Up One Level" button until you get to your C Drive
-Locate your Cakewalk Projects folder
-Locate problematic project file
-Drag and Drop it into your current project, do the problems persist?
This could be a configuration thing between the two versions. Did you migrate your settings from SONAR X2 to SONAR X3? Also, how are your buffer size settings look.
Lastly, we may or may not be able to take a look at the crash. Did you send a problem report or a ticket into Technical Support?
-DG
Hey Dan - Thx for you response - its much appreciated. Yes, I have backups and used them to finish work last night - but all in X2 as X3(c) wasn't up to the task. I will completely uninstall X3 this weekend and reinstall and see if I have any improvements. At this point I have not opened a trouble ticket but will after my reinstall/testing if necessary. Thx again !
post edited by Gregmang - 2013/11/02 15:05:16
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 13:34:45
(permalink)
Funkybot
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Gregmang
2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline.
That is a frustrating experience, especially when working on a deadline. Sometimes the paranoid engineer in my head constantly tells me to version
Dan, I'm sorry, you guys have done, and are still doing a lot of good things in X3, but you have to address the easily corrupted projects in Sonar as a high priority before, or with X4. There is simply no excuse for how easily users can end up with corrupt project files in Sonar. A majority of users on this forum will reply with, "that's why you gotta backup regularly" or "that's why I never autosave and hit Ctrl+S constantly" or some variation on "blame the user" (there's some already on this thread), but the fact of the matter is it's far too easy for Sonar to corrupt files and your user-base has become so used to these issues that they've conditioned themselves to work around it.
Honestly, in my using Reaper and Studio One (which I've spent a lot of time in lately, more than Sonar other than the last week), I've never given this any thought and never had a corrupted project. When I've gone into studios and worked on Pro Tools, same thing: it never came up. I mixed an album in Logic at friend's place, I never backed up, he never mentioned it either, no corrupted project files at any point. Maybe that's just luck (it's certainly anecdotal evidence, yes), but I have to think this is something Sonar can improve upon.
Maybe 1) shut down the audio engine during saves for added safety, 2) add a check to the save routine to make sure the project isn't corrupt before committing changes, 3) look into creating a new project file format that's less prone to corruption (Reaper's project files are actually text files that can be edited in Notepad if needed), or something else.
Fixing this, would go a long way towards addressing some major stability concerns. And I bring this up not to criticize, but rather to shed some light on an area where I think you guys can still improve Sonar.
Thanks for the kind words and your professional insight on this matter. We are really trying to turn things around this product cycle. You guys have been a big help so far, and that is most definitely certain. That being said, it's hard for us to resolve an issue when it's presented outside of our internal support system. I haven't seen this specific issue on my end in Marketing or Tech Support so could you provide me a way of reproducing this, or maybe some project files that exhibit this behavior? Maybe a support ticket or a problem report number? SONAR isn't the only culprit when it comes to project corruption. Plugins, Audio Files, and Downloaded MIDI files have caused major issues as well. I would love to work towards a solution for this if it is causing major stability concerns. -DG
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 13:36:52
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Gregmang 2013/11/02 13:50:44
Gregmang
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Gregmang
Since I installed the "C" patch -
1. Ran into the now infamous Console Emulator "what the hell is that noise ?" bug. Applied workaround (uncheck 64-bit processing ). Odd but works. BTW - this chewed up a few hours.
Yes, it chewed up a few hours on our end too. We are on this, and are aware of it's existence.
Gregmang
2. For no apparent reason Project A hung in X3(c) while trying to substantiate a Breverb on a vox PC bus. Figured autosave would "save" me. Wrong. Dreaded "truncated file" message. Ummmm...ok. Tried "shift" while launching the file. Nada. Zilch. No time for this as I have a semi-deadline.
That is a frustrating experience, especially when working on a deadline. Sometimes the paranoid engineer in my head constantly tells me to version my projects manually so that I physically see the project save correctly. Is this specific to SONAR X3? Or has this happened to you in other versions?
Gregmang
3. Opened up the ORIGINAL Project A in X2(b). Substantiated Breverb on exact same vox PC buss (because I am a glutton for punishment evidently). No problems. Finished mixing, mastering, shipped to customer. Happy customer. Yay.
Cool, I'm glad to see that you were able to find a workaround. Could you forward me the problematic project so that I can take a look at it?
Gregmang
4. Because as I mentioned earlier I am a glutton for punishment I (hours later - as in 30 mins ago) I opened up Project B in X3(c) for another customer (with no looming timetable). Spent a good deal of time reworking a lot of honestly shoddy tracks and got them sounding good enough to export. CTRL-A time. And it froze. I've NEVER had any Cakewalk DAW freeze on me when doing a CTRL-A prior to export. WTF ?? Holding my breathe I went to my autosave and got....drumroll please....the "truncated file" message.
See my response to 2 and 3. How many clips do you have in this session? How many tracks were you freezing at the same time? Also, how many plugins do you have running in this session?
Gregmang
5. Opened up ORIGINAL Project B in X2(b). Performed pretty much the same mixing (btw - by this time I was NOT happy to have to recreate what I had already accomplished the previous 1.5 hours). CTRL-A, export, load into my mastering toys and voila. Completed. Yay.
Recreating projects is not fun, have you ever tried manually dragging and dropping a project into a new project to troubleshoot what the cause of the crash is?
-Make a new project
-Go to the Media Browser
-Select the "Move Up One Level" button until you get to your C Drive
-Locate your Cakewalk Projects folder
-Locate problematic project file
-Drag and Drop it into your current project, do the problems persist?
This could be a configuration thing between the two versions. Did you migrate your settings from SONAR X2 to SONAR X3? Also, how are your buffer size settings look.
Lastly, we may or may not be able to take a look at the crash. Did you send a problem report or a ticket into Technical Support?
-DG
Hey Dan -
Thx for you response - its much appreciated.
Yes, I have backups and used them to finish work last night - but all in X2 and X3(c) wasn't up to the task.
I will completely uninstall X3 this weekend and reinstall and see if I have any improvements.
At this point I have not opened a trouble ticket but will after my reinstall/testing if necessary.
Thx again !
Ok great, please PM me if you have any further issues on this. I would really love to help out in any way I can. Thanks! -DG
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Gregmang
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 13:38:07
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Thx again Dan - your rapid response on the forum is very welcomed and I thank you. !
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Blogman
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 14:27:27
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My problem migrating to x3, was Sonar X3 unchecking 'use jbridge' in plugin properties of my 32 bit Antares auto tune. All of my projects would open, but then crash, or not be able to save.... truncating many of my newest projects. Re-checking the 'use jbridge' fixed that issue for me. Luckily i back up to 3 places.
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Gregmang
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 14:35:23
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Oh wow - I AM using a few 32 bit plugs with JBridge - let me see how its set up.
Thank you, Sir ! Nice find.
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bigboi
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 14:54:34
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While I have moved on to Cubase just recently, I do have to say that my heart is lifted a little to see such good tech involvement from Cakewalk. Kudos guys.
I7 920, 8 gigs ram, Newest gigabyte motherboard, 100 gig ssd for operating system and program files, 1 TB 7400 rpm for storage, Full V-Studio system, 2x Motu 2408 MKIII, 2x Motu 24 I/O, Maschine, Kore 2, Virus TI2, Korg m3, Novation Supernova, Novation D-station, Mo Phatt, Elektron Machine Drum, MicroKorg XL, Arturia Origin, Korg Triton, Roland jv2080-completely expanded, Avalon 737SP, 3 Sony premiere monitors, 2 event 20/20 studio monitors, Autotune AVP1, TC Helicon Voiceworks, 1 TC Electronics Powercore 6000, 1 Powercore Firewire
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Funkybot
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Re: Exceptionally frustrating X3(c) experience
2013/11/02 15:21:50
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☄ Helpfulby Gregmang 2013/11/02 15:29:02
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Thanks for the kind words and your professional insight on this matter. We are really trying to turn things around this product cycle. You guys have been a big help so far, and that is most definitely certain. That being said, it's hard for us to resolve an issue when it's presented outside of our internal support system.
I haven't seen this specific issue on my end in Marketing or Tech Support so could you provide me a way of reproducing this, or maybe some project files that exhibit this behavior? Maybe a support ticket or a problem report number? SONAR isn't the only culprit when it comes to project corruption. Plugins, Audio Files, and Downloaded MIDI files have caused major issues as well. I would love to work towards a solution for this if it is causing major stability concerns. That's the thing, it's so intermittent. Every now and then a project will just get corrupt. If it's just a plugin, then usually the project will crash on opening, and loading in "safe mode" without the plugin will do the trick. I don't even consider those projects corrupt because they can be reopened. I'm talking about the "not a valid project file" or "could not open file" (I forget the exact wording) messages, where the project is gone for good and needs to be rebuilt manually. Perhaps a separate thread would be a more appropriate place, but I'm sure if we were to ask hardcore Sonar users how many have had corrupt files, you're going to get a huge response rate. But intermittent bugs like these, by nature, are the hardest to diagnose because they seem impossible to reproduce. It doesn't mean there's not a problem, but it does mean that you could spend days trying to test for the error and never reproduce it. That said, the problems are manifesting themselves in the real world and having a catastrophic impact on users in the rare cases when they do appear. If I were a Product Manager at Cakewalk, I'd have one or more developers spend a few days going through the save routine to make sure 1) there's no apparent bugs, 2) that there's not a better way to handle the save routine, and/or 3) that there's not some inherent flaw in the .CWP project format itself that couldn't be improved upon, or 4) just take a new look with today's knowledge and see if there's a strong case to be made to upgrade to a new project file format (perhaps an ASCII or XML based format). It's a gut feeling based on what I've seen as an end-user, but my guess is 1) there's something in the save routine that makes it easy for projects to get corrupted, and 2) Sonar isn't checking to see that the save process was successful before committing the changes to disk and overwriting the previous version of the project file. I'd suggest building a check process in, and not overwriting any projects if the save was not successful (i.e. rollback to the last successful save). If there's an error on save, you'd want to show the user a "Save failed" message, and allow them some options to 1) try again, 2) select a new location to try and save the file again to (in case it's a disk issue), or 3) a cancel [and try again later] option. At least this way the corrupted project would never get committed to disk. Also, I'm not sure if Sonar shuts down the audio engine during a save (I think no) but that's another thing you'd want to do if you're not already. It's possible that strange things could be happening to the system during saves as a result of the high CPU/RAM loads you can see while the project is running, and perhaps these could somehow be contributing to these errors.
Intel i7 4790k, ASUS Z97-A mobo, 16GB Kingston DDR3 RAM, Windows 10 x64, UAD2 Duo, RME Fireface 800, Sonar X1/X2 Producer
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