Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync

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Ctrares82
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2013/11/28 17:18:20 (permalink)

Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync

I have had problems with Sonar 6,7, and now 8.5 LE. The audio on new tracks I record is out of sync with the old audio. At first the new audio was delayed, but now it is actually coming in before the old audio! I am running Windows 7 (32) on two different computers with Sound Blaster Audigy, Live!, X-Fi Go! and through a Blue Icicle. Since I upgraded to 8.5 LE and the audio has been early I have done nothing to the audio settings. On Sonar 7 when the audio was delayed I did adjust some Audio Options but really had no luck. I am pretty frustrated. I have been using Cakewalk since at least 2006 and have never had any issues, so I am thinking it is something I have done recently to my computer. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My guess is that updating from Windows Xp to Windows 7 has something to do with it but I wanted to see what others thought. Thanks
#1

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    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/28 18:04:28 (permalink)
    Hello, sorry to hear of your issues. Do you have windows update on. They sometimes want to change your audio driver, best to be selective of the drivers you install.
    If that is the case, it may just be a simple matter to go to the audio setup in Sonar and change the driver back to whatever you were using for pro audio. I had all those cards at one time and the only one that supported ASIO natively is the X-fi, though at the time I think the ASIO drivers were not very good and you would be better off using ASIO for all anyway.
    The problem you are describing is called latency. Make sure to check your sample rate, the lower the sample rate, the less latency you should have. Check your driver mode, if you can't get satisfactory results with your native WDM driver mode, I recommend trying ASIO for All http://asio4all.com/ install it, set the sample rate as low as you can get it stable, usually about 128 or 256. You should then see ASIO as an option in the Sonar audio setup, choose that and you should be good to go.
     
    Just so you know, none of those cards are well suited for use with Sonar, they will work but are designed to play games and support the audio needs of games. There are parts of a gaming card, like an onboard midi chip, that really hinder pro audio performance.
     
    Depending on how serious your needs are, you may want to consider a dedicated pro audio interface.
    post edited by ohgrant - 2013/11/28 18:22:23

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    #2
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/28 23:54:09 (permalink)
    Thank you for the quick response! I am going to go in and see if the latency will fix my issues. I knew those sounds cards were more game oriented. What would be a good audio interface you recommend? I guess if you could suggest a higher-priced one and a middle of the road-one I can decide what route to take. I will get back tomorrow on what I discover through adjusting the sample rate and trying ASIO. I do bet it has something to do with windows and the drivers, since I updated both computers to Windows 7 and now they are both acting strange. I may also roll one of them back to XP tomorrow and see if it helps. Again, thank you for the help. I will be in touch.
    #3
    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 01:43:41 (permalink)
    Just upgraded to 7 and acting strange could be a result of not having your motherboard chipset drivers loaded yet, I would get all the windows updates and check the  other drivers on the update for drivers for the soundblaster you are using. Bad news is, looks like creative labs is no more, I'm not sure if they ever provided drivers for 64bit windows. What version of 7 are you running? 
     
    If you are not accustomed to hunting down drivers, you may want to give one of those 3rd part driver updaters. This is a pretty good one, it is add supported so you will need to decline the installation of a toolbar if you don't want it. http://www.iobit.com/driver-booster.php
     
    I's been a while since I was in the market for an interface I'll have to look into that.

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    #4
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 08:14:49 (permalink)
    I am running Windows 7 32 bit. I did a Windows update before bed last night so i am going to see what shakes out. I also use driver detective so i am going to run a rescan and hopefully update those drivers i need.
    #5
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 10:23:48 (permalink)
    I downloaded asio4all, but I cannot get X-fi pro as an option for audio input, only audigy. I switched back to MME and now he audio is delayed so something is happening. On my other computer I am going to revert back to Xp and see if i nave any issues there.
    #6
    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 12:11:43 (permalink)
     Just to be clear, we are talking about more than one card right? SB live, SB Audigy and SB X-fi all are different cards. The Audigy should work as well as the X-fi for pro audio, if you can get the ASIO driver working for that, I would go with it.
     Not sure how you are mostly using your DAW, if you plan to record a lot of live guitar, you may want to go with a line 6 device, comes with some great amp sims, you can get one pretty cheep.
     
    http://www.amazon.com/Line-6-POD-Studio-GX/dp/B001EHWD0I/ref=sr_1_8?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1385744917&sr=1-8&keywords=line+6
     
     If you need a mic preamp you may want something like this
    http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1363802172&sr=1-1&keywords=scarlett+2i2

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    #7
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 12:32:07 (permalink)
    Correct. All different cards. I am going to see if I can get the Audigy to work with ASIO since that is the only option showing up. I cannot seem to get any response when I record though. Will have to check that out. Thanks for the links above. I am definitely going to order one of those. I really appreciate your time
    #8
    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 14:24:28 (permalink)
    No problem, you may want to try this driver for your Audigy, it claims to have windows 7 support http://nomoregoatsoup.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/new-audigy-drivers-2-18-0011-for-xpvistawindows-7/
     
     

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    #9
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 15:22:37 (permalink)
    If recorded audio is early, that can only be one thing: the driver is mis-reporting its latency to SONAR, causing the DAW to overcompensate. You can correct that via the Manual Offset setting, but beware that whatever correction works for one interface may not be right for the others, so pick one interface and one driver mode and stick with it.
     
    To make the correction, you have to first determine how many samples off the audio is. The most accurate method is to use a loopback. Use any audio file, which can be a test signal or something you've created (drum hits work well), loop the card's output back into its input and record it. You'll then be able to zoom in and see how far apart the original and recorded tracks are (right-click on the M:B:T display in the upper left of your screen and select "samples"). If the recorded audio is, say, 400 samples ahead of where it should be, enter "400" into the Manual Offset box. If the recorded audio is lagging behind, enter the correction value as a negative number.




    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #10
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/29 19:39:22 (permalink)
    Ok latest update. I used a wiped hard drive and reloaded windows xp and all of my software. This did not fix the problem. I then downloaded ASIO4all and recorded something using the ASIO drivers. This did not fix the problem either, although it seemed to at first and then sure enough the audio is on a delay. I am no longer having issues with the audio being early. Now it is just late. I am using the x-fi card and that is it. It is the only one loaded onto this computer. I am really frustrated by now. I never had this issue before on three different computers and now I can't escape it.
    #11
    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/30 01:07:44 (permalink)
     Back to XP, not sure how you restored, if you don't have service pack 3 installed, I would get windows updated completely.
     
    You may want to check all your driver settings. A safe sample rate should be 44100 for projects in the driver settings in Sonar Audio setup. Don't forget to launch the ASIO for all driver control panel and set the buffer rate as low as you can get it, too low will give you pops and drop outs, too high, latency.
    post edited by ohgrant - 2013/11/30 01:08:59

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    #12
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/30 07:42:46 (permalink)
    I can't adjust the buffer rate at all. The slider is all the way to the left and is gray. It won't allow me to change it. It is set at 44100 and a dialog box at the bottom of my screen keeps popping up saying 44100 safe at 512 with ASIO settings.
    #13
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/30 12:56:11 (permalink)
    ASIO buffers can only be adjusted via the ASIO control panel.
     
    What you're experiencing is not related to buffer size anyway.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #14
    ohgrant
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/11/30 13:35:48 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    ASIO buffers can only be adjusted via the ASIO control panel.
     
    What you're experiencing is not related to buffer size anyway.




    I don't know Dave, sounds like latency to me. I had that card and recorded with satisfactory results with GT 2.0 for a few years.  But 512 should at least should get usable results.  Kind of curious what you're thinking here. Mismatched projects that were started with different driver modes?
     
    Ctrares82, That X-fi go a USB device? If so when you plug it in are you getting the warning "This device can perform faster on a USB 2.0..."  If that is the case, you really need those XP service packs to enable USB 2.0.

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    #15
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/12/06 11:02:18 (permalink)
    I looped the audio through but I cannot find where to zoom in. I cannot find the M:B:T display.
    #16
    Ctrares82
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    Re: Sonar 8.5 LE out of sync 2013/12/06 12:03:59 (permalink)
    Yes it is a USB device. I do not get the dialog box about faster performance when I plug it in.
    #17
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