How do I crash X3c?

FreeFlyBertl
One thing I've come to realize is that X3c does not like projects or templates created in X2

+1

Why not bump your thread with your specific issue. Talking about crashes in a general is a total waste of time because there are always different reasons and it's generally down to your environment. I'm running Sonar X3C just fine and actually I'm using quite a few old X2A projects now with it now as well as new projects. I've had a few X3 crashes but I've known exactly why each time and I've reported them to Cake if necessary (all apart from one were third party issues).
 
So please stop talking around your issue get your old thread back.
 
cheers.

 Dependant, Audio Device issues with other devices or OS  with  undone setup, can cause crashes...with sonar or any other DAW...So issues are not always defined, and can be masked by latency like symptoms .... changing buffers do not solve for the symptom, most techs believe is the solution...So if it does not resolve it, then it is not a latency problem with the audio cards performance...it is a sharing or being interrupted by something else...sharing irqs or service or app causing the latency symptom like problem...which can cause crashing!...mostly clicks pops and drop outs are noted first.
 
 
 

Jlien X

FreeFlyBertl
One thing I've come to realize is that X3c does not like projects or templates created in X2

+1

 
OK, at least i'm not alone on this one ... yet, I don't expect any improvement here with X3d
 
 

CakeAlexS
Why not bump your thread with your specific issue. Talking about crashes in a general is a total waste of time because there are always different reasons and it's generally down to your environment. I'm running Sonar X3C just fine and actually I'm using quite a few old X2A projects now with it now as well as new projects. I've had a few X3 crashes but I've known exactly why each time and I've reported them to Cake if necessary (all apart from one were third party issues).
 
So please stop talking around your issue get your old thread back.
 
cheers.

 
Well, I don't agree - otherwise I wouldn't have started this. Remember the discussion about the 64 bit engine: No everyone knows, turns it off and lives much happier ...
 
I wish I'd be as lucky as you and know each time exactly why the software decided not to work. Maybe you can explain these two examples:
 
Example A: I import a track template consisting of 4 tracks and 3 busses into project #1 and #2. Everything works fine, no problem for hours. Imported the same template into project #3 and it does no longer open after save. I start from a backup and repeat. Same result. I check project #1 and #2, which open fine. I start from the backup and do some other things (like freezing synths which have nothing to do with the template to be imported, but of course change the structure and size of the saved file) and then try again, it works ... lost 2.5 hrs going back and forth between projects finding some dogdy workaround  ...
 
Example B: Freezing Kontact takes ages. I see in the audio directory that after freezing one Kontakt track, it freezes the FabFilter synth, then one Kontakt track, then again FabFilter. So without being asked it freezes the same FabFilter synth 64 times wasting about half an hour. In this case, I'm as lucky as you are Alex, and know exactly what it is: I have linked MIDI clips in one Kontakt 5 track and the FabFilter track. Doesn't make sense when it comes to causing that freezing issues described, yet that's it. I break the link betwen the clips and and think I'm sorted. I click freeze and BOOM! There you go ... no go figure and, of course, this can only be down to my environment ...
 
 

SilkTone
Don't have more than one VSTi at a time sending MIDI events out with the "Enable MIDI Output" turned on.
 
!!Crash!!

 
Thanks. That's a valuable post  and worth going after to check. I wonder if that option may be active in some of the VST related issues I've encoutered. I know this is an option when insert the synth (and never really cared about it), but where do I check/disable once the VST is in the project?

i believe we need what is commonly referred to as a "known issues list"...

lawp
i believe we need what is commonly referred to as a "known issues list"...

ideally, yes, but we'll never get an official up-to-date one (I reckon that's quite adverse for marketing to have something like that online) ...
 
so, here's the place to start the inoffical one ;-)

Bristol_Jonesey
FWIW, I am managing to successfully open up older projects in X3 and continuing to develop them, so this is not a common issue.  

Do you use track folders and are their sizes (heights) minimized and saved with a screenset? What happens when you open the project or switch screensets? Do you still see the folder size minimized? My projects created in X2a (with a project template in X2a) show folders in double-row height, while it doesn't happen in a project created in X3.

Bristol_Jonesey

Jlien X

Bristol_Jonesey
FWIW, I am managing to successfully open up older projects in X3 and continuing to develop them, so this is not a common issue.  

Do you use track folders and are their sizes (heights) minimized and saved with a screenset? What happens when you open the project or switch screensets? Do you still see the folder size minimized? My projects created in X2a (with a project template in X2a) show folders in double-row height, while it doesn't happen in a project created in X3.

Yes, I use minimized Track folders and always in a saved/locked screenset and they open as they should do.
 
I do see some strange graphics weirdness from time to time, so it's not completely bulletproof.

 
Hmm...strange, it doesn't work properly like that here (even though the screenset is locked with folders minimized). Also, Ctrl+DownArrow key doesn't do the vertical zoom right in some older projects. For example, when the current track is #10, Ctrl+DownArrow is supposed to show #10 (in the maximized size) eventually, but what it actually does is zoom #7 instead. I'm thinking these weird behaviors depend on the project template you use and how you customized it in X2. I only use just one heavily customized template (created with the default "blank" template), and I'm planning to rebuild it from scratch in X3, but after X3d is released (when will we see it?)

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

SilkTone

CakeAlexS

SilkTone
Don't have more than one VSTi at a time sending MIDI events out with the "Enable MIDI Output" turned on.
 
!!Crash!!

Has this been reported to Sonar with specific steps to reproduce?
http://www.cakewalk.com/s...act/problemreport.aspx
 
Thanks.

Yes, as CWBRN-2504 on 03/22/2010. We are now at CWBRN-22142, so that means there have been almost 20,000 reports since then. And yet to this day Sonar still can't route its way out of a paper bag.

FWIW, the VAST majority of that count are not bugs. Most are things like "where is my serial number?". Someone can also send the same crash through the fault reporter 50 times and bump that count. I wouldn't pay so much attention to the number. It doesn't really tell you much out of context.

Says the person that erroneously closed CWBRN-2504 while this bug still isn't fixed. But hey man, whatever excuse works for you guys, as long as it doesn't involve actually fixing the bug.
 
And note I didn't say 20,000 bugs, I said 20,000 reports. No matter how you slice that, it is an embarrassing number when you look at this issue. I'm not sure what excuse CW can use to justify not fixing such a fundamental MIDI routing/crashing bug that has been brought to your attention many many years ago. Well I guess closing the bug reports as "fixed" might just make it go away I suppose.

so have the individual bugs documented on his web page been re-submitted as individual cases/reports by anyone? that would seem to be the best way forward?

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

SilkTone, I explained to you in depth multiple times why that report was closed. Continuously calling me out with false information and spreading rumors is just ridiculous. You're ignoring everything I've explained to you in depth. You're misquoting myself and other Cakewalk staff. I personally logged your new CWBRN with internal details yesterday. You are quite literally arguing with the person trying to help you here.
 
Please stop spreading false information.

How does closing two bug reports for a bugs that clearly have not been fixed, and then calling you out on that amount to "misinformation"? Or rumors? What rumors? That you closed the reports erroneously? Are you saying those two bugs have been fixed? You might not like it but CWBRN-1336 contains details you won't find in any other report (multiple ways to reproduce the issue, each with very detailed steps, source code for a plugin to reproduce the issue, a Sonar project, screenshots, analysis from within the debugger showing how MIDI notes get mangled), yet you went ahead and conveniently swept it under the rug.
 
I appreciate any help you want to provide, but the one thing I learned over the last 5 years regarding this specific bug is that CW would rather triage it into oblivion at each release and instead fix a bunch of fuzzy feel-good bugs. I get the feeling no-one at CW can fix this bug.

robert_e_bone
Please give me your hand and pull me out of the raging river, while I bite you and yell at you.
 
That'll work.
 
(no particularly accurate summation intended in the above)
 
Seems like Ryan is trying to sort through things, and my observations on his participation in this forum are that he puts a good deal of effort into getting things straightened out.
 
I am not trying to defend anyone, and not trying to discount your frustration with your situation, or the time involved.  I am merely indicating that Ryan seems to be actively working on it, and that he has a good track in here for helping get things as figured out as possible. 
 
Perhaps this will get resolved for you - hope so anyway.
 
Bob Bone

Robert, you are right that Ryan is trying to help. I'm still a bit ticked off that he closed the problem reports that I spend a huge amount of time documenting, while those issues have not been fixed (I'm not expecting a medal for my efforts here, but at the same time it feels like CW doesn't even want to acknowledge that I gave them a huge amount of information in an effort to help them improve Sonar for everyone).
 
So it looks like the expectation here is that we should now re-submit new reports for this issue. That will help, however in no way will I waste my time like that again seeing as to date none of it resulted in us being one step closer to a resolution. I know everyone's workflow is different, but this bug is preventing me from using Sonar altogether. I've tried every work-around imaginable to mankind only to finally realize there is no real workaround, and I was forced to move to another DAW.
 

lawp
so have the individual bugs documented on his web page been re-submitted as individual cases/reports by anyone? that would seem to be the best way forward?

 
I did end up re-submitting them as CWBRN-22141 and CWBRN-22142 (this is what Ryan was referring to). But by no means did I enter nearly as much detail as there was in CWBRN-1336. Just. Not. Going. To. Do. That. I filed those so that I can be notified the next time CW believes they have fixed the issues.
 
If it wasn't for this issue I'd use Sonar instead, so I'd really like to know when these issues are truly resolved. I've been using Twelve Tone/CW products for over 20 years now (before it even had audio tracks), so I would like to continue using it if possible since I'm more familiar with it.

FreeFlyBertl
I see there are still threads around with "X3c" and "crashes" in their titles, yet they go over pages and get really hard to keep up with on a limited time budget; these threads don't seem to come to definite conclusions or real solutions ... or maybe I just blanked out reading through the 40th post ...
 
So, anything definite with X3c which could be identified to stay clear off that would get you into crashing territory??? Some hard fact like the 64 bit engine bug causing the hum and all sort of other issues???
 
The reason I ask is that I can work with X3c for hours and be a real happy camper, but then unexpectedly one project just will go nuts on me (i.e. it won't open after save, or crash when freezing tracks, ...) yet these things are hardly ever reproducible (and if they are, Cakewalk support ignores them anyway).
 
One thing I've come to realize is that X3c does not like projects or templates created in X2; using them will eventually bite you ... not straight away, but once the project gets complicated (e.g. goes beyond the 50+ track count, requires advanced routing/SC, etc) - not being able to feed on leftovers from previous work is a real bummer since it makes it either unsafe to pull things in from previous projects or time consuming if you don't and always start over ...
 
The 2nd unsafe bet is the freeze/unfreeze functionality where I managed to crash with quite a few plugs from different vendors (melodyne, fabfilter synths, kontakt 5, ...)
 
 
 
 

Instead of trying to find ways to crash the program, why don't you just use it to create music and have fun. If you run into a problem, send us a bug report. SONAR X3 has been very stable. Of course it's possible to crash any program but why don't you focus on just creating music?
 
We are working on a new patch, SONAR X3d, that will have lots of fixes and enhancements to an already stable program. You asked us to focus on stability, and we responded. I don't understand the purpose of this thread at all.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Instead of trying to find ways to crash the program, why don't you just use it to create music and have fun. If you run into a problem, send us a bug report. SONAR X3 has been very stable. Of course it's possible to crash any program but why don't you focus on just creating music?
 
We are working on a new patch, SONAR X3d, that will have lots of fixes and enhancements to an already stable program. You asked us to focus on stability, and we responded. I don't understand the purpose of this thread at all.

I think the OP's point is that he is trying to "just use it to make music and have fun". However for him Sonar crashes randomly for no apparent reason, and he is trying to understand what all the known causes for Sonar crashing are. Once he knows that he can try to determine if any of those apply in his case, and then use the known work-arounds so that he can get to the point where can "just use it to make music and have fun".
 
I think it is a valid question to ask. The title can be a bit misleading but if you read the 1st post it makes sense.