Where now?

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creynolds
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2013/12/20 19:25:31 (permalink)

Where now?

Cakewalk 2.5 a long time ago, hey I'm 55 this year. I bought cakewalk 3 with excitement and optimism. Since that time I have purchased every single incremental upgrade as soon as it was released with blind optimistic faith. I think it's fair to say I'm a believer a true cake fanboy. But... I have no enthusiasm to upgrade to x3. I have x2 and quite honestly I don't like it very much. It's bloated and sterile, confused and clunky. I find it foreboding, unfriendly. There is a barrier to scale. It stands braced between me and the idea that skipped across my mind. It no longer makes me feel excited and creative. It feels dull.

Sounds unfair doesn't it? After all it's just a bit of software, a tool. So it's my fault, my age, the limit of my ability that makes me dull. It's not sonar, it's me. But......
I get logic x and in a day I feel liberated. The music flows from me. New tunes new directions, new shapes and freedom to try new directions at liberty.

Simple access to patterns sounds and shapes without stress. Software that eases you towards creativity rather than conventions.
Music software, not audio recording software.

It's a revelation

Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
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    Splat
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 19:34:10 (permalink)
    Wow a lot can change in two months...
    creynolds
    I use sonar more than any other DAW. I have a protools 9 licence. I bought studio one and I used reaper for a while. Cakewalk should be quite interested in why I gravitate to sonar for most projects.  

    Groups and grouping. Lets spell that out so the terminology doesn't trip us up here. I have done a few really large projects that have really quite a lot of tracks. In this respect any decent DAW can handle 60 plus tracks without major expansion or stress. But when it comes to making a new audio channel that just carries say, just the kit, sonar makes that a breeze. I can select a bunch of tracks and say "hey you lot, you all go to this stereo bus and that is it". In this way, no matter how many track a project contains I rarely waggle more than 10 faders to do the final mix. 
    Some others can do this but the mute and solos get mashed up or you have to deal with a matrix or manage aux's. Sonar just says "ok done that". 

    Amazingly, in all other respects I find all DAWs horribly similar. 

    So there you are. 

     
     

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    #2
    creynolds
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 19:41:15 (permalink)
    Yes. You are right to quote that back at me. It's very surprising how you can modify your approach after realising that one piece of software seems to perplex and stifle your creativity and another can appear to throw the door open to innovation and innovation.

    Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
    #3
    rontarrant
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 19:44:47 (permalink)
    Very interesting, Mr. Reynolds.
     
    I turned 58 this year. For me, Sonar X1 was the sterile one and X3 brought me back to life, musically speaking. I've been hitting the books and learning more about music production than I was ever aware of (or cared to know about) before. What's even more interesting (for me, at least) is that I've been working on one single song... one song... since September 13th--more than three months--and I'm still engaged. Mind you, it's hasn't all been just that song; it's also been learning how X3 differs from X1, learning all these new things about mixing, and even digging into learning more about the hardware I have and reawakening my friendship with the bass (which I haven't played with this type of enthusiasm since the 1980s).
     
    So, you see, whereas X3 seems to have given you reason to find inspiration elsewhere, it's given me reason to find it right here. To each their own, I guess.

    -Ron T.
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    Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
    #4
    creynolds
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 19:57:57 (permalink)
    That's really interesting and really great. I don't want to be a nay sayer. In fact I can't. I decided for the first time in 25 or more years not to upgrade to x3. A decision I agonised over. It was tempered by such an overwhelmingly positive experience with logic x. I have never been a mac boy and never understood the bleatings of that clan but it was such a revaluation to run software that seems biased towards creativity and innovation rather than technicality. I freely admit that this occurred hand in hand with building a hackintosh but I really did feel liberated. I'm not yet fully indoctrinated but I really recommend an open minded look at apples flagship daw. It is inspiring.

    Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
    #5
    Leadfoot
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 21:36:25 (permalink)
    Well, the important thing is that you're inspired to create. That's what it's all about, not what you use to get there. That said, as a fairly long time Sonar user, I'm very inspired by X3. I hope you will at least try it when the demo comes out. Best wishes to you.
    #6
    Anderton
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 22:08:37 (permalink)
    Leadfoot
    Well, the important thing is that you're inspired to create. That's what it's all about, not what you use to get there. That said, as a fairly long time Sonar user, I'm very inspired by X3. I hope you will at least try it when the demo comes out. Best wishes to you.



    Words of wisdom

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #7
    Sidroe
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 22:23:24 (permalink)
    Just switching to a different DAW can inspire you to do something new! Just a fresh approach or changing workflows can light that fire. I have worked with Cakewalk products since Pro Audio 9. The studios I worked for that stayed loyal to Cakewalk always upgraded every chance. I have also used Logic, Cubase, and Pro Tools. Pro Tools, pretty much out of necessity as it has been the standard for so long. I always felt more comfortable and accomplished more in a shorter time with Cake. When I set my own studio up at home I started with Sonar 8.5. It came with the free introductory for X1. From then on I have been an exclusive user of Sonar.
    I will say anytime I have used a different DAW, something different came out creatively. Sometimes, you have to jump the fence and check out the grass on the other side. That being said, if you have had the same experience as me, you will probably come back to the Cake fold with a new and fresh outlook.
    I have not had a lot of the issues that some people complain about. I know that all DAWs have their little quirks. I must go down as saying that X3, while not perfect, is running as solid and reliable as anything I have ever used before. I'm sure we are all agreeing that the Gibson buyout scares the hell out of us but with the rollout of X3 as positive as it's been is a good sign. The forum is humming along, updates are coming faster than I have ever seen in the history of Cake. I hope that things stay this good and when you finally come back it will be to stay.
    Only time will tell. 

    Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
    #8
    mettelus
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 22:57:17 (permalink)
    I am really not sure what say here, and curiosity always gets the best of me more than anything else. It seems that many fly in here with the only purpose of "poisoning the well." No real point to be made, no problem to be solved... so I read them a few times to find a "point," and some I walk away from.
     
    Music (to me) is a common thread of "joy"... if folks enjoy pounding on trash cans with sticks, then so be it... they are happy (beautiful thing actually)! Music spans all income levels and is not proprietary to anyone... so is an interesting field in that respect alone.
     
    Just as an aside... I used to teach English, and often told students that if they master the art of argument, they have won. No one is required to read anything... and in text (especially), if you can validate your point, and have someone acknowledge it, it is a "win." Not that they agree with you, but "see your point." An example would be someone saying, "That movie sucked!"... without the "why" it carries no weight.
     
    I have read the OP four (4) times now... and simply think "So this opinion undermines people who truly find joy via other means?" I am hard-pressed to see the "point" as I read it again... if another finds joy in anything else, they may be 20 steps ahead of anyone without it (is rather humbling actually). Anyway... food for thought....

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #9
    dubdisciple
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 23:11:58 (permalink)
    I'm glad logic is working out for you. Not sure what the purpose of post was , but i wish you well
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    SuperG
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 23:15:00 (permalink)
    mettelus
    I am really not sure what say here, and curiosity always gets the best of me more than anything else. It seems that many fly in here with the only purpose of "poisoning the well." No real point to be made, no problem to be solved... so I read them a few times to find a "point," and some I walk away from.
     
    Music (to me) is a common thread of "joy"... if folks enjoy pounding on trash cans with sticks, then so be it... they are happy (beautiful thing actually)! Music spans all income levels and is not proprietary to anyone... so is an interesting field in that respect alone.
     
    Just as an aside... I used to teach English, and often told students that if they master the art of argument, they have won. No one is required to read anything... and in text (especially), if you can validate your point, and have someone acknowledge it, it is a "win." Not that they agree with you, but "see your point." An example would be someone saying, "That movie sucked!"... without the "why" it carries no weight.
     
    I have read the OP four (4) times now... and simply think "So this opinion undermines people who truly find joy via other means?" I am hard-pressed to see the "point" as I read it again... if another finds joy in anything else, they may be 20 steps ahead of anyone without it (is rather humbling actually). Anyway... food for thought....



    +1
     
    What gets me, (not related to the OP, BTW), is one someone posts an opinion, usually negative, and then they get a bent out of shape when someone counters it. I mean, an opinion (not fact) is just that - and someone else's opinion might just be that the first poster (in his opinion) is FOS, and he'd be just as legitimate as well.
     
    I suppose that when you post strong opinions with heavy adjectives, you can right expect to have it all blasted back at you...
     

    laudem Deo
    #11
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/20 23:19:54 (permalink)
    See the world, young man.
     
    Lots of folks here in the forum use different DAW software for different aspects of music creation and production.
     
    DO check out the X3 demo, when it shows up.  There are some things being worked on, and some things made better, and some things new, and you might find it to once again fit your needs/wants.
     
    In any case, to echo a prior sentiment, best of all to you in all you do.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #12
    joel77
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 10:01:19 (permalink)
    I hadn't really thought of it before, but I suppose using a different DAW could be like a different tuning of a guitar or picking up a completely new instrument and being inspired by the sounds one can make.
     
    For the record, I'm also mid 50s, have used Cakewalk products since 2.0, love and have been truly inspired by the X series. It all just makes sense and fits with the way I think and work. 

    Joel  Glaser
    Studio 52     

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    #13
    Splat
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 10:19:44 (permalink)
    Going to a DAW for me is like going from Lotus123 to Excel (or vice versa), a fairly dull affair. Music is what it should be all about.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    #14
    mmorgan
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 10:24:53 (permalink)
    You youngsters just crack me up. 
     
    X1, 2 or 3, Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Ableton...it's all good. We are blessed with the availability of incredible tools. Use what you like. As far as I can see if you consider yourself a musician you should be making music...and using anything and everything that cranks up the creative spark.
     
    (I'll be 64 next year)
     
    Regards,
     


    Mike

    Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
    #15
    creynolds
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 16:28:44 (permalink)
    Its been nice to read all the comments on this thread. Really very heartening to see how much everyone majors on the music and not just blindly banging the drum for technology and Sonar X3.

    Sonar is a great piece of kit I have used it for many many years and I know it well. In some very small way I have helped it develop. However, in my view, it may have headed off on a bit of tangent. Prochannel in particular perplexes me. I simply find it pointless. If I need a compressor I have several amazing Plugins for major manufacturers that I paid quite a bit of money for. I don't want all these other fiddly homespun modules hanging off the channel even if they can be hidden. I like to keep things simple and if don't use it I don't want to see it or worry that I may have enabled it in error. I often run very large track counts (entire string sections) and the grouping is essential. I often apply dynamics, eq and sends only to groups. I would love to remove as much as possible from a channel to economise on real estate, processing and visual distractions. Of course you can hide lots of things, but this does not always mean they are passive or inactive. Anyway that's a small personal beef that I like to get off my chest whenever I have the conch. I simply believe you should only add what you need to the path and not clutter it with stuff that is inactive, bypassed or simply not contributing, as it can lead to confusion and therefore errors.
     
    Many will heartily disagree with me and that is as it should be.
     
    I think all that remains is to sign off and wish you all a Rocking Merry Christmas and a fabulously creative new year XXXXX

    Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
    #16
    Anderton
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 18:20:58 (permalink)
    I have virtually every DAW installed on either my Windows or Mac computer, know them well, and could run a session and mix with any of them.
     
    Each DAW has strengths and weaknesses for particular applications, and I choose what's appropriate for the project at hand. In my world, Sonar gets the call far more often than anything else.
     
    I think of each DAW as a session musician (I used to do a lot of session work back in the day). There was always the hotshot guy who could do something really amazing and would get the call sometimes, but most of the time I wanted to work with the player who showed up on time, could play just about anything really well, smiled a lot, was liked by all the other musicians, and made the sessions run creatively and smoothly

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #17
    Splat
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    Re: Where now? 2013/12/21 20:58:34 (permalink)
    Merry XMAS!!!!
     
    > Where are they now?
     
     

     
    ... as long as you know you know you know :)
     
     

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #18
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