Track templates = No sound

So I've done this several different ways with different software and each time I do it I get the same result. Let's use Omnisphere. I open a new blank session. I open Omnisphere and Sonar (X3c) dutifully creates an audio and midi track. I clone the midi track to make a total of eight tracks. I assign midi channels one through eight. I open a sound on channel 1 and everything works fine. I save the whole thing as a template and close out the window. I open a new blank session. I do an "Import from template" and everything comes up looking fine except that there's no sound. Everything worked great when I saved the track template but when importing that same track template... nothing.

I've done this with different software programs, etc. Anyone else have this issue?

Oh yeah, it imports the synth and even loads up the patch that I use as a starter placeholder. All the routings are as they should be It loads up the reverb, etc. Everything looks like I'd expect it to be. It just doesn't produce any sound at all when importing the track template. Creating the template, everything works as expected. Save track template, close the session, open a blank session, import the track template... nothing. It's really weird (and frustrating)

What happens if you do this with only 1 audio and 1 midi track?
 
Just trying to determine if the cloning piece of this has bearing on the outcome.
 
Bob Bone
 

It *appears* that it happens when there's more than one midi track for a virtual instrument. Yesterday I created a track template using one instance of Omnisphere (the standard one audio, one midi track channel 1). Today I open it and it works fine. Yesterday I also created a track template using one instance of Omnisphere and one extra cloned midi track (one audio and two midi tracks channel one and two). Nothing but silence. 

This appears to be a bug with track templates as I can reproduce it over and over. I'll submit it and we'll see if we can get this fixed.

Hmmm... it's never easy is it? So myself and FreeFlyBertyl have it happen but Bristol Jonsey does not. I did it with Omnisphere, Damage and Play. Although yesterday I created a two midi track template and it didn't sound when I inserted that track template into a blank project. This morning I inserted that track template and it worked. I just tried it again now (inserting the template this afternoon) and it didn't work. Talk about random. Although I've never gotten it to work on a track template with eight midi tracks. I did send a bug report to Cakewalk so maybe they can sort it out. 

I've tried changing patches, opening a new patch on a different channel, etc. For me, once it's silent it's silent. 

So far the only thing that seems to work consistently when creating and importing a track template is a basic 1 audio/1 midi track that's created when I insert a new synth. I just tried inserting the 1 audio/2 midi track template into a new project again and it just gives me silence. It didn't work this afternoon either but worked this morning when I inserted that same track template into a new project. 

Just tried with multiple midi tracks using "Insert MIDI Track" instead of "Clone the MIDI track" and saved as a track template (making sure I was getting sound before I did so). The first time I inserted the track template into a new empty project everything worked fine. I closed and opened a new empty project, did the insert track template and... silence. It's bizarre.

I tried it with Omnisphere, Kontakt (Damage), Play (Hollywood String)... all with the same bizarre and unpredictable results. Definitely not just a Spectrasonics thing. Not happy that you're having this too but a bit optimistic that my submission to Cakewalk can be reproduced and then hopefully fixed

I don't have Kontakt full version but just the "free" version that I use for several items including Damage. I did try it with Free Kontakt/Damage, multiple midi tracks and same issue. 

If you have the full version of Kontakt I don't think that a template using the free version will work or will it? I can try. I'm just replying here real quick. I'll get a template to you by tomorrow and we'll see what happens. I have submitted this to Cakewalk in their "official" bug report thingy.

Dave,
 
can you give us your system specs ?.
 
Are any of you people who are having this issue with track templates running Win/64, Sonar 64bit, and have any 32bit VSTs installed on your computer ?
 
If you are running Sonar 64bit, and have ANY 32bit VSTs installed on your system, make sure that the VST scan path does NOT scan both 64bit and 32bit paths in 64bit Sonar. If both 64 and 32 bit plugins are scanned by Sonar, you can expect all kinds of really odd behaviour, and will be very hard to diagnose it.
 
Please check that first - it caught me out a long time ago, and as soon as I fixed that, my whole system thanked me for it :-).
 
 
Cheers - Cliff

OK, because of the randomness I'm not quite ready to declare victory BUT... cliffr above mentioned odd behavior when there's both 64 bit and 32 bit versions of the same program. I eliminated the 32 bit duplicates and... so far... it works!

I'm going to try again tomorrow, to load up the little eight midi track Omnisphere test template and we'll see what happens. I loaded it up twice tonight and everything worked. I'll post tomorrow to let you guys know what's what.

Cautiously optimistic 

Here it is hours later and I tried again and... it works.   Now, once I removed all 32 bit duplicates of the 64 bit VI's and rescanned plugins, I created and saved an eight midi track template using Omnisphere. When I imported that template into a new project, so far it's worked in each of the three or four times I've opened it tonight. 

But... the track templates that I created when I still had the 32 bit duplicates of the 64 bit VI's, they don't work. So it appears that we have to do things in this order...

1. Remove all 32 bit duplicates of 64 bit VI's
2. Rescan all plugins
3. Recreate any and all track templates that you had prior to doing item #1, replacing the "old" track templates

So it looks like this is (as Inspector Clouseau would say)... Solve-Ed.

Thanks to everyone who contributed and special thanks to CliffR for what appears to be the fix for this annoying and baffling issue. I *hope* I didn't just jinx everything by saying that. 

Well... unfortunately not completely out of the woods yet. Like I said yesterday, because of the random nature of this thing I wasn't ready to claim complete victory. This morning I opened that same Omnisphere track template that worked three times yesterday and... nothing. I try it again... nothing. I try it the third time and it works. Ugh...

OK, at least I'm a bit ahead of the game compared to before when an eight midi track template would never work. There's still a bug in Sonar somewhere.

I do have to fuss a bit at Cakewalks "bug reporting" system. I sent this in and got an email back saying they needed more information. OK good, let's click the link they sent and see what additional information I can provide. The link takes me to a page where they've declared the issue to be "Closed" saying that it's not them, it's a "configuration" issue on my end. Well... if it wasn't configured correctly it wouldn't work period. Of course I don't have a chance to have any interaction to point them in the right direction.

I guess I'll just open another problem report and try to cover all the bases in that one.

Not related to this but I found a verified bug in Sonar where midi envelopes are ignored when rendering in real time. Cakewalk verified this through their problem reporting system. That was back in X2 at some point and here we are at X3 and that hasn't been addressed. That's a major problem, a huge part of what Sonar is supposed to do just flat out doesn't work. You spend all the time creating midi envelopes, they work great within Sonar and you render/bounce/whatever in real time and all the midi envelop info is ignored. I love Sonar but I haven't had (so for) much luck with their process of problem reporting and bug fixing. 

Hi Dave,
 
as Jonesey said, can you describe the steps in details ?.
 
Also - just to note, when you load a track template and it doesn't work, do a double check to see what the actual plugin it has loaded.
 
At the plugin GUI pull up the VST Properties and display the path - just in case it's actually got the 32bit version loaded.
 
Before I got all my VST paths sorted out, this happened to me.
A 32bit plug can end up being loaded, and you would never know because it does not appear bit-bridged ... from looking at the GUI, it looks just like the 64bit plug, but checking the plugin path in the VST properties will reveal whether or not the correct file is loaded.
 
Problems with automation are another symptom of 32/64 plugin conflict that can happen if there's a copy of a 32bit plugin somewhere in the scan path - and sometimes they are there where and when you really don't expect it.
 
And as you point out, once you've tidied everything up, you need to do a VST re-scan, and recreate any templates that were affected.
 
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Cheers - Cliff

Somebody pointed it out the other day in these forums, that if you put your plugins away from program files, and program files (86) you should never have the need to run Sonar as administrator.
 
So my folder structure is like this:
 
d:\AudioPlugins\32bit
d:\AudioPlugins\64bit
D:\AudioPlugIns\VST3
D:\AudioPlugIns\Depeciated\64bit
D:\AudioPlugIns\Depeciated\32bit