WallyG
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So, how do you set up the "Console Emulator" ?
I've started using the console emulator in all my tracks, grouped them all together so I can turn them OFF/ON at the same time. I do hear an improvement when I turn them ON, but I don't know if it's because the volume increases, or some high frequency eq has been added or what. Reading the write up about the console emulator in Cakewalks help doesn't help as it just explains what each knob does. I just read a post by Daylaa that had a video about Pro EQ that actually showed you in a real example how to use the software to improve the sound and why they did what they did. Can some explain to me the best way to adjust the settings to get the best results. I realize that there's only two knobs, but what am I looking for. (Ya, I know... "Until it sounds good!) :-) Scott's Power X2 book suggests adjusting both knobs for +2db. Why? Why not 2.1db? Walt
post edited by WallyG - 2013/12/30 11:51:53
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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Splat
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 11:40:52
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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WallyG
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 12:13:02
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CakeAlexS You mean Console emulator? Check: http://youtu.be/iZtJ9sLnwK8
Alex, Thanks for the correction. I've changed my post accordingly. I watched the video, but that didn't offer any help in what I'm looking for. The video mainly concentrated on how to insert the emulators in each channel. Craig also suggested setting each knob for 2 dB. Later he moved the controls back and forth, but didn't mention what you should be looking for. Until it sound better? The video ends with "When used properly (?), can give you that extra bit of Mojo that makes a mix stand out that much more. If you're like most users, you'll find that as you learn how to use the console emulator properly (?), you'll want to use it on all your mixes." So how do you use it "properly"? Happy New Year! Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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Lynn
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 13:04:51
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You've answered your own question. Why not start with +2 and go from there? Use your ears and experiment. According to your first post, you already have heard the difference with it turned on. I think you want to know more about why it works than how it works. Apparently, it works by adding a tiny bit of simulated analog distortion to the signal, which one would naturally get with an analog mixer. At least, that's my understanding. If I'm wrong, then hopefully, someone will set me straight.
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Splat
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 13:18:59
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> If I'm wrong, then hopefully, someone will set me straight. Use somebody else's ears, that's what I do ;)
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 13:24:00
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Lynn Apparently, it works by adding a tiny bit of simulated analog distortion to the signal, which one would naturally get with an analog mixer. At least, that's my understanding. If I'm wrong, then hopefully, someone will set me straight.
I did some analysis of the CE, and found it does two things. First, there is some simulation of non-linearities (distortion) that occurs in analog consoles. With digital, left and right channels have identical characteristics; with analog, slight differences between left and right increased stereo imaging, and distortion also creates higher harmonics that added a very subtle brightness. Second, it seems the CE takes into account input transformers by adding slight frequency response alterations and the distortions typical of inductors in the low end. As to adjusting the controls, my preferred method is to quick group the controls and experiment. The Drive control introduces the effect itself, while Trim is more about level-matching. However, you can turn the Trim way up to add distortion - I wouldn't recommend this for program material, but it's useful as an effect on individual tracks. When adjusting Drive, adjust to taste but I'd then recommend backing it off just a bit. The CE is at its best when it adds a subtle effect rather than hit you over the head with it.
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WallyG
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 15:30:01
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Lynn ...I think you want to know more about why it works than how it works... Once I know how it how it works (that's the electrical engineer in me), then I'll know why it works. Craig's explanation below is very helpful. Happy New Year! Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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WallyG
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 15:37:24
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Anderton...As to adjusting the controls, my preferred method is to quick group the controls and experiment. The Drive control introduces the effect itself, while Trim is more about level-matching. However, you can turn the Trim way up to add distortion - I wouldn't recommend this for program material, but it's useful as an effect on individual tracks. When adjusting Drive, adjust to taste but I'd then recommend backing it off just a bit. The CE is at its best when it adds a subtle effect rather than hit you over the head with it.
Thanks Craig. That is very good suggestion to quick group the controls. The electronics engineer in me wants to work with specs., data, etc. but this sounds like "add salt and pepper to taste". I'm off to quick group! Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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michaelhanson
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 16:08:12
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I have found what works best for me is to adjust it to a light setting on all tracks and then mix into the CE from the start. That setting for me has been right around 2. CE is always last in my signal chain on tracks, except on the Master bus, its followed by Concrete Limiter.
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WallyG
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 17:23:31
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MakeShift I have found what works best for me is to adjust it to a light setting on all tracks and then mix into the CE from the start. That setting for me has been right around 2. CE is always last in my signal chain on tracks, except on the Master bus, its followed by Concrete Limiter.
I just did an experiment grouping all the "Drive" knobs in the console emulator on each channel (20 of them) per Craig's suggestion. It was interesting to flip the knob from -6 to 6. There was a definite improvement at 6. Going from 6 to 2 didn't "seem" to make any difference. Going below 2 made it worse. Looks like the magic "2" is a good default. Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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michaelhanson
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 18:35:39
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Walt,
I am just using 2 as kind of a starting point on both the input and the drive. I may push it up a little or pull off the 2 knobs depending on listening to what sounds best in the overall mix on each track. I used to leave it all on one type of console, but I find myself switching from track to track, between the S,N, and A chooses, again by ear. To my ears the Neve emulation adds a little more punch, S seems to soften just a bit, and A seems to be somewhere in between. For instance on some songs, I may want to add a little more punch to a snare track by using N. Other times I may want to soften that snare and will use the S emulator.
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WallyG
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 18:45:00
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MakeShift Walt,
I am just using 2 as kind of a starting point on both the input and the drive. I may push it up a little or pull off the 2 knobs depending on listening to what sounds best in the overall mix on each track. I used to leave it all on one type of console, but I find myself switching from track to track, between the S,N, and A chooses, again by ear. To my ears the Neve emulation adds a little more punch, S seems to soften just a bit, and A seems to be somewhere in between. For instance on some songs, I may want to add a little more punch to a snare track by using N. Other times I may want to soften that snare and will use the S emulator.
Mike, Thanks. I think your ears might be a little better calibrated than mine! At my age and all the years of playing, I'm glad I can at least hear a difference between w, w/o the console emulator. :-) But I'll keep "plugging" away. Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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jb101
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/30 18:50:19
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I found Craig's tips very helpful when I started out with the Console Emulator. There was a thread when they first appeared where he went into great detail about his experiments ith it. I have taken Craig's starting point of "2" and then experimented with tracks. Now I have a better idea where to start on differing material. The other great advice Craig gave was to insert the Console Emulators before you start mixing, and mix "into them". Also play around with the different emulations, and see which work better on different program material. It is a gross oversimplification, but I seem to prefer the N-type on rock-ier material, the S-type when I want it to be more transparent (Jazz, classical) and the A-type on pop/funk. Having said that, there are probably as many exceptions for me as there are rules on this. The A-type can sound nice on lots of things etc. etc..
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Wouter Schijns
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/31 11:14:50
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the N-type Emulator to my ears beefs up low and highs, the other ones mainly process the mid and highs. I find the N-type nice on a masterbus, puts the music 'alive' by just engaging it without dialing up the knob. Adds around 1-2 db's by just enabling it. I would only use it on tracks that need it, or the sound would become 'overprocessed'. But technically I dont know what the Emulators do, if they compress or just add certain frequencies..
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jb101
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/31 12:00:51
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Wouter Schijns the N-type Emulator to my ears beefs up low and highs, the other ones mainly process the mid and highs. I find the N-type nice on a masterbus, puts the music 'alive' by just engaging it without dialing up the knob. Adds around 1-2 db's by just enabling it. I would only use it on tracks that need it, or the sound would become 'overprocessed'. But technically I dont know what the Emulators do, if they compress or just add certain frequencies..
If you read Craig's post above: Anderton I did some analysis of the CE, and found it does two things. First, there is some simulation of non-linearities (distortion) that occurs in analog consoles. With digital, left and right channels have identical characteristics; with analog, slight differences between left and right increased stereo imaging, and distortion also creates higher harmonics that added a very subtle brightness. Second, it seems the CE takes into account input transformers by adding slight frequency response alterations and the distortions typical of inductors in the low end.
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Anderton
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Re: So, how do you set up the "Channel Emulator" ?
2013/12/31 12:08:02
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jb101 I found Craig's tips very helpful when I started out with the Console Emulator. There was a thread when they first appeared where he went into great detail about his experiments ith it. I have taken Craig's starting point of "2" and then experimented with tracks. Now I have a better idea where to start on differing material. The other great advice Craig gave was to insert the Console Emulators before you start mixing, and mix "into them". Also play around with the different emulations, and see which work better on different program material. It is a gross oversimplification, but I seem to prefer the N-type on rock-ier material, the S-type when I want it to be more transparent (Jazz, classical) and the A-type on pop/funk. Having said that, there are probably as many exceptions for me as there are rules on this. The A-type can sound nice on lots of things etc. etc..
First, thanks for the props! I hope to come up with something similar about ways to use tape emulation. Second, I don't think what you're saying about the different types is a gross oversimplification - I've come to the same conclusions you have about suitability for different types of material. I think what you've presented is a very useful "point of departure" guideline for those getting into the CE. Also agreed that there are always exceptions. One final comment is that overdoing the CE may not work well for mixes, but can be used on individual tracks as an effect. For example, I've had good luck with making bass "pop" a little more.
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