LNovik
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Sticking notes
I just purchased a Roland Integra-7 synth module, which I use with my Sonar Producer 8.5 software. As I have been running thru the presets every day over the past 6 days, I've noticed that after playing for awhile. one of the notes sticks--by which I mean that one of the notes gets stuck in sustain, while all the other notes respond normally. As I go to the next sound, that sustaining note shuts off, but starts as soon as I start playing the next patch. It's always the same note when it starts, but on other days it's usually another note. It's not the keyboard controller I'm using, since it also occurs when playing thru another controller. It does stop when I power off and on. The people from Roland wondered if it might be a problem with Sonar. I must say that when I MIDI'ed directly from my keyboard into the Integra one day after I was starting to get the note sticking, the problem stopped occurring. However, I didn't play like that for another 1/2 hour or so, which would have tested it out more completely. Perhaps when I changed the MIDI connections, it was like powering off and on. In other words, I'm not sure where the problem is coming from. Thus, I'm just here to ask if anybody has any experience with this problem, either with the Integra or any other synth, while using Sonar. Thanks. LNovik
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bitflipper
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/02 17:29:32
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This could be an issue with the module, a bad MIDI track, or the MIDI interface. One thing you can try is increasing the MIDI buffer size, labeled "Prepare using N millisecond buffers" under Options -> Global -> MIDI. The default value is 500ms; try increasing it to 700 or 800ms.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/04 08:52:01
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Thanks for that input. 2 things: 1)I did go to Optons->Glolal->MIDI. On this field, I saw a bunch of options under the "Record" heading, and near the bottom of the field, there was 1 option re: "Playback." It did start with "Prepare using ___ millisecond buffers. Interestingly, the value on it was 250, not 500. I know you suggested 7-800, but since it was only on 250, I increased it to 500. I did play some dense piano passages with sustain, and did not hear the problem, though I only did it for about 5-10 min. I'll continue to see if that helps. Thanks for the input. 2)Roland support wrote me saying that perhaps my "input echo" on the track I was using was set to "On." I did find what I think was the "input echo" button, which is on the L of my main screen, where it lists all of the attibutes of the given track, such as panning and loudness. The picture of the button looks something liike this: )))))) IN my track, it is assigned to "auto thru" and not "On." I assume this is correct. Thanks again. LNovik
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/09 19:40:56
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2 things on this subject: 1) As I said, I did inc the MIDI buffer size, as Bitflipper had suggested. It's on 500, and it had been on 250. Today, again while playing several piano patches for 15 or 20 min, the note sticking recurred. I guess I'll now go to 750, and see if that helps. ANy other suggestions would be welcomed. Again, after this occurred, it continued to happen with each voice I played, until I repowered. ANd, it again just occurred on 1 note. 2)On an unrelated note, I ran into a problem with using the IPad with my Roland Integra-7/Sonar Producer 8.5 setup. When I load a midi file that's I've downloaded from various places online, it will send MIDI messages that change the patches in the Roland. When I then go in and disable program, bank, and exclusive on the ROland, that doesn't occur anymore. However, I then (understandably) can't control the Roland from my IPad anymore. Thus, I would think that I need to be able to tell Sonar to stop sending such messages. However, when I looked into this about 6 months ago, I seem to remember that Sonar was not particularly good at doing this. Any ideas out there? I know someone had said to put in some blank measures at the very beginning, but I don't think that would help--even when I start the song from the middle, Sonar again changes the sound and patch that I had chosen. Thanks. LNovik
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/09 20:33:00
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Funny this brings back the reason we always had a panic button in our live set up. ALL NOTES OFF it was called a midi log jam. The note is stuck because it did not rieceive the note off data message. Sonar has a panic button...look at the tool bar beside the audio engine icon. What you need to determine is WHY this message is not being either sent or received. Not sent means your controler midi cable interface or sonar is having issues. Not receiving the player is having issues
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 08:01:55
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OK, I think I'm making progress with your assistance. Thank you, Johnny at Cactus Music, for that suggestion. I have tried two things in the past week. FIrst, at the suggestion of Roland support, I simply played by new Integra-7 MIDI'ed straight from a keyboard, instead of going thru Sonar. After about an hour of playing, I did not get any sticking. That would imply the Sonar software, though why does it never stick with my Korg or Yamaha keyboards? Later, while again playing thru Sonar, the sticking DID recur. I did do what Johnny suggested, and hit that button right next to the AUdio Engine button, labeled something like, "cancel MIDI in and out.". It did work perfectly; that is, the sticking note stopped immediately--and remained unstuck when I resumed playing. However, this was when I was simply playing piano on the Integra-7, and not even multitracking. I mainly bought this instrument to be able to play multiple tracks at once, and if it continues to stick while just playing piano, I would think it would occur even more with the multitracking. I guess I'll now finally get to what Bitflipper suggested, and increase the MIDI buffer size to 750. I assume I don't give anything up when increasing my MIDI buffer size from the 250 value it was on before, all the way up to 750--although I have no idea. IN case anyone knows any problems that I could incur from doing this, please let me know. ALso, if by describing my problems and progress so far, if anyone can figure out a reason why all this is occurring with my setup, I'd also very much appreciate that input. Thanks again. PS: Keyboard Mag just said that the Cakewalk site has one of the best support FOrum sites, and I agree. LNovik
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bitflipper
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 09:57:19
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If you make the MIDI buffer too large you might start hearing noticeable lags in response to CC automation or the arpeggiator. The fact that you can play the module directly from a keyboard without sticking notes suggests the problem is not within the module. I doubt it's a SONAR issue, though. More likely the method of transmission. I assume you're using USB. If so, is routing through 5-pin DIN cables an option? I'm sure the module has DIN connectors, so it's a matter of whether your audio interface does, too. Here, I use DIN for all things MIDI (except, obviously, software synthesizers) and I never get stuck notes on my external synthesizers. It's happened with a few Kontakt libraries, and with SAVIHost using its virtual keyboard, but never with any of my hardware synths.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 11:05:16
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No, I'm not using USB. I use a 4x4 Midisport interface, and I don't think that's connected to a USB port. ANy suggestions with this type of setup? LNovik
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 11:16:15
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Oops. I just crawled down there and realized that I am wrong about the last point. It IS a MidiMan MIDISport USB interface, and, as the name implies, I see it is hooked up to the back USB port of my pc. HOwever, the only other connections on the unit are the MIDI in and out receptacles. I don't think I could change the type of connector that attaches to the unit on the other end of that USB cable/jack. LNovik
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 12:28:17
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I think you might have just found the source of the problem. Start looking into threads regarding issues with midi sports, I think I've seen this come up before.
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88fingers
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 12:58:37
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today must be the day of midi sticking notes. i'm using the Roland Fantom G6 with Sonar X3 Studio and I've had the same problem since last week and just like the other user I've increased buffer size, I'm using midi cables not USB and my interface is a M-audio fast track pro. And yes your right if you press the reset MIDI button in the transport bar it stops. it almost seems like there's to much midi happening at the same time so, is it the interface or Sonar? is there another way to break it down? as far as the input echo goes I've had them on and off still the same problem. Any more help would be great.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 15:56:47
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Yup, MidiSports have a long checkered history. Check with M-Audio to see if there are updates available, not only for the Windows driver but also for the unit's firmware, which is upgradable. This wouldn't explain 88fingers' problem, though, unless there is some common problem between the two M-Audio products. Not an M-Audio user here, so I can't testify one way or the other. BTW, you'll see reports of stuck MIDI notes in conjunction with all interface manufacturers, even the ones generally considered a cut above M-Audio, as well as on all DAWs, both PC and Mac. It's a widespread problem, has been for years, and may come down to the fact that MIDI is, at its core, a very slow medium that can be prone to buffer overruns. You're not by any chance using a USB hub, are you? Or recording to a USB-connected external drive?
post edited by bitflipper - 2014/01/12 16:52:12
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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88fingers
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/12 17:19:42
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thanks for the quick response. I check all my equipment for updates every month for the latest in updates and firmware so I'm pretty sure I'm OK in that dept. I will be sending M- audio a description of the problem and see if they have heard of the same thing. as far as using a USB I'm only using Midi cables from the keyboard to the interface. (in, out)
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/13 19:18:39
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I also sent a note to M -Audio, and hope to hear from them soon. I even sent a link from this discussion, with an explanation, to the Roland support staff. However, as I think of this, I'm not quite sold that the problem lies with the interface. I have several other synths, such as a Triton, Kronos, Roland XP30 and JV 880 synths, as well as a Yamaha Motif. I just don't see problems like this with any of these other synths. ANd that's with using the same interface and software. I do remember occasionally getting some sticking of a sound with one of the other synths, but it was pretty rare. With what I believe is some association between Roland and Cakewalk, I would think they would be a little more motivated to try to figure this one out. For instance, I think when I have gotten some sticking on, ie, my Triton, all I had to do was switch to another preset, and the sticking went away. As I have said, when the sticky note starts on my Integra-7, that note continues to sustain no matter what preset I choose. Only powering off and on fixes the problem. Thanks for listening and contributing. LNOvik
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scook
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/13 19:31:57
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LNovik With what I believe is some association between Roland and Cakewalk, I would think they would be a little more motivated to try to figure this one out.
There is no longer any relationship between Roland and Cakewalk. Roland sold Cakewalk to Gibson last year.
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88fingers
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/13 21:37:40
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Thank you Mr Novik for the input. I spoke with a Cakewalk tech in Boston today and he asked me to try a few things. this is what he said to try. Open the Preferences > Audio – Playback and Recording to uncheck the "Always Stream Audio Through FX" box. Click [Apply] then [Close] to return to your project. Try increasing the MIDI buffer in the Preferences > MIDI – Playback and Recording up to 2000ms. Solo one of your MIDI tracks to see if playing only one at a time results in stuck notes or not. Now I did mention to him that I never had this problem when using Sonar LE. so with that said, here goes nothing. By the way, I tried the Roland interga 7 two weeks ago, "what a machine" love it!!!!!
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/14 01:12:02
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Just one thing that I somehow remember from the distant past. Overlaping the same note was always a bad move. Back then I was in the habit of making sure every notes duration was just shy of the next. I still sort of do that. I notice if I edit a downloaded file they are real sloppy in this department. I was just working on a drum track where every snare hit was a stack of 3 notes on top of each other?? I'm not even sure how or why you would do this. It does make them louder which is why I found them. So I was thinking that a midi loop back while recording might cause this, So make sure you do not have this going on as it would also cause stuck notes in the loop. Never have the track output aimed back at the keyboard your using for input.
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b rock
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/14 19:34:21
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I have several other synths, such as a Triton, Kronos, Roland XP30 and JV 880 synths, as well as a Yamaha Motif. I just don't see problems like this with any of these other synths. Just some anecdotal information: I've had more problems with sticking notes using synths / MIDI controllers that feature true note-off messages [8nH with a release velocity component]. I've compared them side-by-side with 9nH v=0 note off messages in the same projects, but without experiencing the same stuck note problems. This stretches back to at least Sonar 3.x and Project5, if not before. Having not researched your synths' MIDI Implementation Charts, I don't know if any of this applies. I'm throwing it out there as another potential explanation.
post edited by b rock - 2014/01/14 19:35:27
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/14 21:11:41
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Re: the 88fingers post: though I don't have--on my Sonar Producer 8.5 ver---a "Preferences" heading, I did try a few things out. I chose: Options\AUdio\Advanced. This took me to a page, but there was no box that read "Always stream audio thru Fx". All I saw were a few boxes, where I had chosen ASIO and Triangular. I also saw something that said "MMCSS (Windows Vista)." This was checked, so, because I don't have Windows Vista, I decided to uncheck it. ALso checked was "Use multiprocessor engine," which I left checked. Thus, I just couldn't find this box that you wanted me to uncheck. Then, re: the 2nd thing you suggested. Again, no preferences, so I looked for it under : Option\Global\MIDI. I did not have a heading called Playback and Recording, but each was listed separately. Under the "Playback" option, I chose "Prepare using..." It had been 250, and I increased it to 2000. I played for about 5 minutes, and it sounded OK, but the sticking usually doesn't occur until about 1/2 hour of playing. Incidentally, while looking at all of these boxes, I was thinking that perhaps I have checked some of the wrong boxes elsewhere. I 'm not even sure I should be using ASIO. (Isn't that a song by Steely Dan?) Is there a link anywhere with rec's for all of the choices under "Options" that I might go to to make sure my other boxes are checked appropriately? Thanks LNovik
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/14 22:44:45
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Somehow I think a MIDI buffer of 2000 will cause trouble, Most set this from 500-800. I use almost all of Sonars defaults that it chose it's self when I installed it. It seems to have a way to choose the proper parameters and for the most part they have always worked for me. I did change my MIDI buffer to 500 even though I was having no problems. ASIO is the preferred driver mode by 90% of DAW users. But as said, ASIO is an Audio driver, not sure it has anything to do with MIDI. I think windows uses generic drivers for midi.
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LNovik
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/18 18:08:53
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I did go to Option\Global\MIDI and, under the Playback heading, went up to 2000 on the MIDI buffer. While playing today, I again had the (dreaded) sticking note. In fact, this time it was after playing for a while, and then starting a few minutes later to play again. It occurred within a few seconds of playing a song. Lastly, I still haven’t been able to find what 88fingers recommended. He had said that he got this rec from a Cakewalk rep, so I think it’s probably worth trying. He had said: Open the Preferences > Audio – Playback and Recording to uncheck the "Always Stream Audio Through FX" box. Click [Apply] then [Close] to return to your project. As I had said, I wasn’t able to find this option with my 8.5 ver of Sonar Producer. Is it possible this option is hiding somewhere else? As I had said, I don’t even see a toolbar selection item for “Preferences,” though I did look under “Options.” I wasn’t able to find anything there. Thanks. LNovik
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scook
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Re: Sticking notes
2014/01/18 18:17:27
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LNovik Open the Preferences > Audio – Playback and Recording to uncheck the "Always Stream Audio Through FX" box. Click [Apply] then [Close] to return to your project.
This is a new setting in SONAR X3 replacing "Play effect tails after stopping" , I believe it was added as part of the VST3 enhancements. It is not in older versions of SONAR.
post edited by scook - 2014/01/18 18:20:21
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