bandso
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Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
Hi folks, just a quick question. I have a project that has 7 songs in it, and it is around 60 or so audio tracks, with lots of VST effects (no midi synths)
When I start the computer, start sonar, and load the project, it is taking 4 or 5 min to get everything together under the hood and get to the state where I can start recording. Would a SSD hard drive speed this loading time up? I have no experience with these new types of hard drives, but Ive heard stories of Windows OS on one of these drives starts within a few seconds of pressing the on button.
I know 4 or 5 min isn't a long time to wait, but when creativity hits I'd like to have a recorder that is ready to go asap. Thanks!
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 3:33 AM
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Hi - why do you have all of those songs pieced together into a single project?
That doesn't make sense to me - so if it does to you, which is fine, please explain.
An SSD will load the OS quicker, by seconds, and projects will generally load faster - to what degree depends on a lot of things, but in general terms it will load things faster.
But, I again would question having so much stuff all strung together like you are doing.
If it were me, I would split those into multiple projects.
Bob Bone
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flameout
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 4:59 AM
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I have an SSD, it was hooked in as a fast data drive. (For my boot drive I have a fast 10,000 rpm mechanical drive.)
If you did nothing but buy the smallest ssd you can, and had windows use it as the cache device, you'd be miles ahead. Noticeably snappier. Almost night and day.
I used to have a SSD for the boot drive and it gave all those "fast boot up" times. Did you know that if you have an ssd for a boot drive, windows does not even use a cache because the drive is so friggen fast.
The only reason I gave up my ssd boot drive was it was no longer large enough. But by making it a data drive, and specifically by putting the cache on it, I got 75% of the benefit.
Highly recommended.
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mettelus
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 5:41 AM
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FWIW, I am hesitant to come to the SSD as a "solution" and agree with Bob. For me, all of my data files are on a 7200rpm HDD, and only the OS/X3/plug-ins are on my SSD (i.e. the engines). X3 will start fast this way, but I can literally choke it to death by piling on unnecessary things. I am also confused to opening several songs in the same project... just the overhead that implies seems unnecessary.
Project folders have made things simpler to find, and X3 can open multiple projects at once, so if I find the desire to move things between songs, I chose this route myself. "Lots of VST effects" can also put the chokepoint on your CPU rather than the data itself. For example, long ago I decided off the cuff to make a project with many VSTi's in it just in case I wanted to play around with them later, and when I opened that (blank project) later the load time was noticeable (and everything in that was on my SSD).
I would lean more to saving that project file seven times into their own project folders, then paring each down to only work with one song at a time. Of course you can open more than one at once, but then you will be driving that decision, not it being a "by default" setup.
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bandso
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 9:29 AM
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Thank you for the replies. I will break the song up when it comes to final mixdows. However for tracking and overdubs, when all of the songs are in one project, the act of recording on an entire album becomes super fast. You just pop around from one song to another, hit record, and lay down the music. I wouldn't even have considered doing it this way until I was at River's Edge productions (where Godsmack recorded "Awake") and I watched the engineer track a band in this fashion. (almost like the project is a large reel of analog tape). It kept the music flowing and didn't kill the vibe by making the musicians wait on the DAW. I find it also keeps a good consistancy across the entire project and the album as a whole. Of course each song is going to need it's own little tweaks come mixdown, but this type of workflow works for me when a band wants to record more than a song or two.
So from what I've gathered, yes a SSD drive will speed things up for me. Excellent!
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cclarry
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 9:38 AM
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I can see somewhat the benefit of this arrangement, but usually
that type of thing is reserved for Mastering.
Songs normally reside in "individual projects" and then are mixed down indvidually
and brought into a separate project for the overall mastering of the album.
But, that's a "norm" not a "rule"....
The major downside to what you're doing is "load time", which is what you were asking
about. With multiple songs and multiple audio files residing in a single project file, the
load time will become quite long - even with an SSD. It will be faster, but will still be
far more then "normal".
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Sir Les
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 9:49 AM
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As my system was Probably not working correctly with ssd drive for the Boot drive (in hind sight), I also notice long loading of 2 hr sessions, 16 track projects, in x2a and x3c, when they would load...So I do not think much time would be saved in doing so in that regard , unless a secondary ssd drive was holding the project and audio PERHAPS?..if any. ,, long load times seems to be linked to the "wave image drawing" of the tracks...from what I saw sonar doing when opening large projects with that ssd...again my system was not performing correctly, and or with Sonar, so take this with a grain of salt.....
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bandso
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 10:20 AM
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Sure, I used to record the "standard" one song/one project way on a DAW for years. But then come mastering time the songs really did sound like they were recorded at seperate times/locations. Eq and overall mix levels varied enough that the tunes sounded more like a collection of songs instead of an album recorded in the same session. Keeping everything in the same project means that things like guitar sounds, background vocal levels, snare timbre, etc.. stay consistent song to song (the entire song collection just sounds more like an "album" to me). Reverb tails, delay times, and many other things get tweaked from tune to tune, but a ton of things can stay more or less the same, if the songs are in the same genre (a well recorded drum kit, a wall of guitars, bass guitar).
Of course there is no wrong way to "get it down" as long as the music is good.
Now the big question....should I buy a smaller SSD now or bite the bullet and *gasp* save for larger one. I have GAS bad so saving is really tough for me :)
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Anderton
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 10:41 AM
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bandso
Sure, I used to record the "standard" one song/one project way on a DAW for years. But then come mastering time the songs really did sound like they were recorded at seperate times/locations. Eq and overall mix levels varied enough that the tunes sounded more like a collection of songs instead of an album recorded in the same session. Keeping everything in the same project means that things like guitar sounds, background vocal levels, snare timbre, etc.. stay consistent song to song (the entire song collection just sounds more like an "album" to me).
SSD drive aside, that's an interesting approach. I can see where it would be great for achieving a cohesive sound.
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mettelus
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 5:17 PM
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bandso
Now the big question....should I buy a smaller SSD now or bite the bullet and *gasp* save for larger one. I have GAS bad so saving is really tough for me :)
Be sure you read up on SSDs... they have their own set of rules. Here is a nice guide on them for Win7 (I am not sure what you are running). Also, be sure you put it on a SATA III (6GB/s) connection, otherwise you will not see "great" performance from it. FWIW, I installed a 240GB SSD as my OS/Program/Plug-in drive, and it still runs ~70GB free with 205 programs loaded on it (including Adobe Creative Suite 5.5 which is rather huge). I am diligent about housekeeping though (I run Iobit Advanced System Care 7 Pro for this). That will at least give you a benchmark of sorts. Most data goes on 7200rpm HDDs though... I have seen the SSD act flaky at times with massive files (so take that with a grain of salt, since mine is older). BTW, I understand your point now, but not sure I agree with it 
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wizard71
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 5:47 PM
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I like this idea also. No reason why you shouldn't record this way. Actually makes sense if you have the specs to cope.
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bandso
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
December 30, 13 6:10 PM
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Thank you for the info on the drives. I'm an old IT guy so I really should be up on this stuff already. Now that I have a reason to get on board then I guess it's time. To Wizard71, the only reason that I can see "not" recording this way is that a change in one slider or eq knob, say on a kick drum, changes it in every song of the project. This is where automation comes in really handy, as you can setup the lane and just change the part in the song that you need at that time.
Most of the time I do split the project into seperate songs up for final tweaking when I'm getting ready for the final mix down, but the small changes that I make here do not affect the songs on the whole. This way they all still have a consistent flow and sound to them.
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WallyG
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 01, 14 2:16 PM
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bandso
Hi folks, just a quick question. I have a project that has 7 songs in it, and it is around 60 or so audio tracks, with lots of VST effects (no midi synths)
When I start the computer, start sonar, and load the project, it is taking 4 or 5 min to get everything together under the hood and get to the state where I can start recording. Would a SSD hard drive speed this loading time up? I have no experience with these new types of hard drives, but Ive heard stories of Windows OS on one of these drives starts within a few seconds of pressing the on button.
I know 4 or 5 min isn't a long time to wait, but when creativity hits I'd like to have a recorder that is ready to go asap. Thanks!
I have an SSD drive for my operating system and Music applications. I have 2 hard drives for my songs and samples. Be aware that you don't what to use an SSD to store data files i.e. audio, midi, etc. Constant writing to SSDs will shorten there life. Citing a quote from one of the posters references in this thread: "SSDs are perfect for anyone with a need for raw performance, but you’ll need to treat them right. Follow our advice and avoid unnecessary file operations in order to maintain your system’s performance and prolong its lifespan. Use the SSD as a system drive (Windows, third-party programs and important data), and move your huge files (like pictures, music and videos) to a secondary mechanical or external drive." Walt
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konradh
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 01, 14 3:04 PM
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Not the same thing, but I am currently shopping for an SSD for my string and orchestral samples because those stream from the disk and performance is currently horrible.
Regarding having one project for an EP or album, I think that is a very interesting approach (if you have plenty of backups in case the file is corrupted). What would make this challenging for me: 1-Since I use virtual instruments, I would either have to use the same drums, bass, etc. on every song, or have separate instances and tracks, or periodically bounce down and comp the tracks. It seems like the single project approach is better for actual audio recording. 2-Not a big deal, but if you are going to use Melodyne, you will have to teach it all the tempo changes and variations throughout the project and probably work on small sections at a time to avoid crashes. I use SyncToy to back up the Melodyne transfer files and you can't have a Melodyne project open when you do the back-up, or those file back-ups will fail.
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 01, 14 3:30 PM
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When you save a template with all tracks and Eq settings in it the approach of a single song, single project may give you the same results..
If a SSD is C:\ and audio tracks are on D:\ loadtimes will be shorter then when C:\ is a HDD. But it won't be night and day. When audiotracks are allso on C:\ loadtimes will be very short. But when operating in a commercial studio this will wear out the SSD quite fast.... So there are trade offs to be made here. A HDD is still the best recording medium for sustained datarates.
A user at Tascamforums who has a 48X digital Tascam recorder put in a SSD. But project loadtimes did not change. And performance was not altered. So he took out the 256GB SSD since it did not do squat... So there are trade offs.
There is this side to it: when musicians are not used to the recording side of things. Stress levels will be stress levels. Some people are not capable of dealing with this type of demand...
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jscomposer
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 02, 14 10:42 AM
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konradh
Not the same thing, but I am currently shopping for an SSD for my string and orchestral samples because those stream from the disk and performance is currently horrible.
Konrad, I highly recommend this. I have all of my libraries on SSD's, they load a zillion times faster....especially Hollywood Strings! Just get an inexpensive SATA III SSD, works great. Project/audio files are fine as well. Someone here mentioned that reading/writing takes a toll on a SSD, but this is a myth. Your computer would die long before the drive reached its max. Regarding an entire album in a single project; very unorthodox approach. I'm actually surprised to hear about a pro studio doing this. Any good engineer will have templates set up, ensuring that the settings are the same for each track. It would be a real pain to scroll through to find the last song LOL! Also, it would take a huge toll on system resources. But if it works, then that's the important thing (just doesn't make sense).
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 02, 14 11:08 AM
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I used to have 2 512 GB SSDs, and one crapped out after 6 months. I switched back to SATA III HDD and never looked back.
I DID see improvement in Windows booting and programs launching, and samples did load faster, but not enough faster to justify the expense and the unreliability of them, in my opinion.
Setting up templates with the settings and such is going to give you MAGNITUDES of time savings, FAR over anything you could do with switching hardware technology. Really, I am not aware of anyone who would approach an album by keeping it all one giant project.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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bandso
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Re: Would an SSD drive speed up project loading times
January 04, 14 4:45 AM
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Thanks again to all for the replies. After some thoughts I've decided just to wait it out until SSD's become a little more reliable, larger in storage, and a bit cheaper (in a few years I'm sure they will improve). I have a perfectly fine working system that has really been quite solid with all of the Sonar releases so why mess with a good thing.
Bandlab Platinum and every other toy I can get my hands on...and yes I'm way in debt over this obsession...
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