Should they ALL be hits?

The question is: should EVERY song one writes be written with a "#1 hit" sound in mind? I generally am asking in terms of pop, hip-hop and rock music. I try to write music somewhat outside-of-the-box, but a lot of times I tend to go overboard with generous helpings of eccentricity to where listeners can't actually 'feel' the music (you'd be surprised if you heard some of my unreleased demos). What'ch'y'all think?

For mainstream rock, pop, R&B, hip-hop, most definitely.....you go for the hit or you don't write for that market.
 
You have 3 choices as a writer in my opinion:
 
1. You write for you and see where it takes you. This means be as progressive as you feel you need to be or want to be, be eccentric, think outside the box and write way out stuff, if you are a musician flaunt your chops.....let your mind go. Don't be afraid to be different but also be ready to accept that you may be over-doing it, may be considered "unique" or you may wind up with a cult following or no following at all.
 
2. Write for a particular genre based on what works in that field. Think popular, common arrangements, some cliche lyrics or words that work for that genre and stuff people can relate to while they can tap their feet without having to think about keeping time while singing along. People think it's easy, yet every time I tell them "if it's so easy, please write these hit tunes and give me the money you make from them" they answer "nah, it's too easy" while they sit at their day jobs miserable and bashing on others who have found ways to be successful. If I could do it, I'd write 5 Rebecca Black "Friday" tunes a week because there is a market for that. Not one I particularly enjoy, but hey, until I get rich from my music...if any of you rich people in this economy want to float me some money because you CAN write 5 tunes a week like that, I'd be obliged! You too can give to the united Danny songwriting fund! :)
 
3. Write in a hybrid style. Meaning, pick the genre you like and study what is successful for that genre. From there, the object is sort of like a book report. You don't copy the information right out of the book, you tell it in your own words adding "your flair". This to me is how stars are born without trying. You don't set out to emulate anyone, you just do what you do while paying attention to what works in your preferred genre of music and then you change it up a bit while still delivering an infectious hook. From there you create your own formula which ends up being, yourself and your brand of music.
 
People may be able to tell your influences at first, but you sound like you and in time, you'll start to have less influences as your true self starts to shine. Don't be afraid to experiment, but always consider your audience. Hip-hop crowds probably wouldn't like 6/8 timing....then again, if YOU can deliver it the right way in a language they can understand, don't procrastinate. The key is how you deliver the hook.
 
Two prime examples of delivery to the masses off the top of my head...
 
Eddie Van Halen made two hand tapping on a guitar more famous than anyone. He was NOT the first one to do it, he didn't create it, yet he gets just about all the acclaim for it in the eyes of the public. Why? He delivered it in a way the masses thought was incredible, it caught on and the next thing you know, Eddie is the tap king. When others before him did it, the sound was cool but it didn't have the impact that Eddie had when he tapped his way into the hearts of the masses at the time. Delivery is so important...especially when that delivery becomes "acceptance" in a time where Disco was king in the music industry which was when Eddie came out. Talk about taking a chance?!
 
The second example isn't really a great one, but it's after 5:30 am and I'm toast. LOL! A progressive metal band by the name of Dream Theater put out an album called Images and Words. It had the perfect amount of progressive metal, hooks, back up vocals, instrumental brilliance on every instrument, and some of the best commercially acceptable songs they would ever write.
 
The success of this album made them stars. Though their sound was something me and many others enjoyed for that one album, the albums that followed (though good from a musical standpoint but not so much a song standpoint) went further away from the hooks and became hooky in other aspects as well as more instrumental wankage being introduced.
 
This to me was a turn-off. A great band with chops to die for, but it was too much. I liked the band and accepted them for what they brought to the table at the start. But they changed a bit too much for me to enjoy in large doses. When you try to redefine the face of music or go off and do whatever you want after a successful album, you can tank really fast. Low and behold, the band never had another album quite like Images and Words. Not because they couldn't write one...but because they didn't want to by choice. They were happy with writing 2-3 cult based albums per year doing various side projects with extreme progressive material with weird timings and insane instrumental abilities.
 
That's all well and good, but they hooked quite a few people with that first album and lost quite a few when they went totally musical. They gained some prog fans as well, but they lost more than they gained over the years with sales that were quite dismal at times. But they made up for it in endorsements and music clinic vids. Me personally, that wouldn't be enough for me. I want the full musical package. The songs, the hooks, the musicality...a writer, a performer...appealing to the masses as well as the people that may like guitar music. But that's just me.
 
My point is, follow your heart but always consider your genre as well as your audience. Meaning, do what you do...do what you want, but know when to reel yourself back in. Then again, it would be a shame for the world to not hear intense creativity that may also make a person a star. It's a catch 22 really and always will be. But keeping the 3 options I've listed in mind can at least help you to create a blueprint for what may be a great starting point. Good luck. :)
 
-Danny

Depends on whether you're shooting for a commercially-viable product or just want to express yourself in music for the joy of it. For the hobbyist who just wants to get better at it, the best strategy is quantity first without regard for whether the current project is going to wow anybody or not.

should EVERY song one writes be written with a "#1 hit" sound in mind?

 
Danny summed it up pretty well.  Myself, I do the hybrid method.  I write more for myself in hopes that others like the songs....but, I am very conscious of the fact that they have to be like-able and musical to draw interest.
 
I think the biggest challenge is recognizing in your own music, what works for you that others seem to like.  Developing your style, your own tone, your own "voice".  I believe strongly in what Danny mentions as you kind of have your own sound that eventually finds its way out...almost no matter what you are trying to do.
 
Experimentation is good, but keep it musical as well.  I always keep in mind that if I am the only one that likes the song, its not going to sell very well.

davdude101
 
Should they ALL be hits?
 
The question is: should EVERY song one writes be written with a "#1 hit" sound in mind? I generally am asking in terms of pop, hip-hop and rock music. I try to write music somewhat outside-of-the-box, but a lot of times I tend to go overboard with generous helpings of eccentricity to where listeners can't actually 'feel' the music (you'd be surprised if you heard some of my unreleased demos). What'ch'y'all think?
 

 
IMO what I do;
 
#1 criteria is to always strive to better previous efforts. Seek out new challenges, to boldly go where no man has gone before :-P; 'Challenges' in areas such as 'songwriting', musicianship skills and music production (DAW), along with the premise that no matter the years of experience; life is a 'continuous learning curve.' Importantly; At every step, for every nuance, I try to capture the best; Song Structure -- Performance -- Pure Essence (vibe, feel) -- Quality (sound) -- Good Audio Levels. Because every aspect of the process from Song and performances to end (final master) is all important! Its the sum of all that! 
 
In regards to songwriting, to boldly go where no man has gone before; "Easier said than done.' Especially being a one-man, doing-it-all thy-self, I know it is not easy and that's why I show a lot of respect to the many talented fellow writers /musicians / music producers who obviously put in a decent amount of effort. 

{Doh} Above said; Decades of experience up my sleeve and dang it man I'm still striving, to do ||: better and better and better :|| {rpt}  years of that thought pounding in my head over and over it's no wonder why I've gone insane.   
 
 
Post credits:
"To boldly go where no man has gone before" {Star Trek} . 
 
I love that expression 
 
 
 

Chuck, that video is hilarious.  It is funny that you could do a similar video for any lyrical genre.  I tell my son all the time that most criticisms of a genre can easily be turned around and that he should not be so harsh on styles he does not enjoy because odds are someone has the same perception of what he does enjoy.

Hi coda,
 
Ah it's quite alright. :) See, that was why I gave the 3 choices in my post. If you read #1 it's saying what you're saying. The other side of the coin is....think about his question again and then look back on the styles he mentions.
 
If you are going to write a pop, hip-hop or rock song TODAY and want to be successful, you go for the hit or you don't try to be successful. I'm talking from my own personal experience. We do jingle work, music for documentaries and weekly shows....it's all about the hook in MY business as that is what we get asked to do. When I do stuff for like say Rob Pincus who is one of our clients, (does a show on guns and we have done a majority of the music) we get to do heavy instrumental rock stuff and can be more experimental.
 
But when you work in the bigger leagues, experimentation is often times not going to sell and the same can be said for pop, rock and hip-hop. It all follows a format. Though one does NOT have to conform to that format, you have a better chance at making a few bucks while doing so...and that was what my line you quoted was geared more towards. :)
 
You're using quite a bit of classic rock there brother. Therefore, we're probably both close in age. LOL! :) While it is fantastic music, in today's times it would tank due to people not being concerned with the journey classic rock took us on. From the way the artists were unique (in a good way) to the album covers and art helping you to enjoy the album (or just about anything classic rock) I sincerely believe none of it would do well today the way it was back in the day. So I would say it's a bad example because most of the songs those great classic rock bands were known for, were not songs that got radio airplay at all or it may have happened at a later time, know what I mean? People accepted things differently back then....it's a totally new music business.
 
As for VH, the tapping thing I mentioned wasn't about Eruption. It was the style that was delivered I was talking about. "You Really Got Me" was the first released single....which had tapping in the solo. My point about the tapping is, when something is done right to where it is accepted by the masses, it matters not how you do it as long as that delivery is right and people are ready for it. Think about all the bands you can name that were "before their time". Most never amounted to anything other than for we that enjoy that stuff. I've always loved Traffic, but they weren't huge. The guys in the band wound up doing cool things, but that band was pretty awesome to me...yet it really didn't catch on. Heck, I remember playing Rock and Roll Stew when that album came out and people looked at me and said "what band is that kid?" LOL!
 
My point is...the choices we make depend on where we are in our careers, if we even have a music career and if this is a source of income. By all means, everyone should try for #1 or #3 in my post regarding this...but if you see a window of opportunity that tells you "write me some hits and I'll pay you some money" do you ignore that and continue to work on stuff that is weird hoping you may make a few bucks? If a person has no expectations and just wants to write and enjoy it, by all means....go with #1 and stick to your guns until YOU decide it's time to change your game plan.
 
I'd never talk anyone out of artistic creation. But the other side of the coin is just as valuable. You most times don't become a huge actor unless you do commercials. The same with music really...you usually have to practice your craft and meet the right connections while doing so. Over-night success stories are 95% fallacy. Anyway, I'm honestly not trying to sway you to think like me, just trying to explain how I meant my post if by chance it was unclear. :)
 
-Danny

Great video Chuck.
 
I just try to write something good. That usually weeds itself out pretty quick by all the time and energy it takes to write anything. If it sticks around, I go with it. 
 
I don't think anyone knows what a "Hit" is coming from an unknown. That's just plain luck.
If working for an established top ten artist, I could write hits all day long because the artist and money behind them would make sure of it.

ChuckC
.... we had at one point 4 of the 5 guys in the band wrote entire songs and would bring them to the band to present & possibly work on together... One of which would get upset if we changed a lyric or a melody here and there on "his song".  He was not the youngest in age and one hell of a lead player but he WAS the newest to songwriting/composition.  His songs, and lyrics were often good in concept but unpolished, and amateur sounding (understandably, he was a novice at best).  They had potential but needed work, though he would already be in love with them before he brought them to the table and took it as an attack on his baby.....    
  I explained to him how approx. half of what I write goes in the garbage the next morning.  You always think it's good while writing it but with fresh ears & perspective I could be subjective enough to toss out the trash.  ......... many would be reworked, lyrics scrapped and rewritten 2-3+ times before I brought them to the band, then of those that made it to the point of being presented to the band, about 1/3rd would get shot down out of the gate for various reasons, 1/3rd would be worked on and sit half done into eternity, and a maybe 1/3rd actually ever saw completion, stage time, & our next record.  
 .....  It is hard to write "hits" or everyone would.  
 

 
I totally hear you on that Chuck.  Just recently on a different forum, I heard a song that was extremely well written.  Great verses,  as I'm listening I'm thinking wow... what a great song.... it hits the prechorus and the energy and feel are building nicely .... it sounds like a HUGE PAYDAY CHORUS is coming up... right here....  huh?  what? ... the prechorus continues past it where the chorus should have started.... 2 more freaking lines adding nothing new and exciting...... and deflating the energy..... when the chorus finally started, it was good but the energy was gone....
 
I kindly and carefully suggested to this individual that the PC be shortened.  I explained my reasons from a writer's POV.
 
I was attacked by that writer, and just about everyone else on that forum for even suggesting such a thing.... sacrilege ..... they all, to a person said....that song was "written well and needed no changes" It was as if I wanted to sacrifice his child to the fiery furnace....
 
Nope... Writers who refuse to even listen to a different viewpoint have a long way to go. One thing I have learned about writing is that nothing is ever written in stone and recommendations to change things from other writers is not a full frontal attack on either you, or your "baby".  I've worked with a writer who feels the same way I do.... nothing is sacred in a song lyric or musically. We've scrapped each others verses, choruses, changed things around and we came out the other side with a much better and more well written song as a result. It's only on rare occasions that we do stick up for a certain line or word..... and when that happens, the other accepts it and works with it.
 
Perhaps a way to get that fellow to see the light of a songwriter's day would be to first work with him on a collaborated song so he gets a real world experience and see's that lyrics are often replaced with something so much better than the original first thought rough draft.  After seeing that, he may even come forward and ask for some "review" on his other, older stuff.  Start gentle... Instead of saying it that way, how about if we said this instead? .. sure beats, "that's a sucky line".....  I know YOU would never say that to someone.... but trust me... I have heard those kinds of comments about my stuff from other musicians.
 
 
 
 

Guitarhacker

ChuckC
.... we had at one point 4 of the 5 guys in the band wrote entire songs and would bring them to the band to present & possibly work on together... One of which would get upset if we changed a lyric or a melody here and there on "his song".  He was not the youngest in age and one hell of a lead player but he WAS the newest to songwriting/composition.  His songs, and lyrics were often good in concept but unpolished, and amateur sounding (understandably, he was a novice at best).  They had potential but needed work, though he would already be in love with them before he brought them to the table and took it as an attack on his baby.....    
  I explained to him how approx. half of what I write goes in the garbage the next morning.  You always think it's good while writing it but with fresh ears & perspective I could be subjective enough to toss out the trash.  ......... many would be reworked, lyrics scrapped and rewritten 2-3+ times before I brought them to the band, then of those that made it to the point of being presented to the band, about 1/3rd would get shot down out of the gate for various reasons, 1/3rd would be worked on and sit half done into eternity, and a maybe 1/3rd actually ever saw completion, stage time, & our next record.  
 .....  It is hard to write "hits" or everyone would.  
 

 
I totally hear you on that Chuck.  Just recently on a different forum, I heard a song that was extremely well written.  Great verses,  as I'm listening I'm thinking wow... what a great song.... it hits the prechorus and the energy and feel are building nicely .... it sounds like a HUGE PAYDAY CHORUS is coming up... right here....  huh?  what? ... the prechorus continues past it where the chorus should have started.... 2 more freaking lines adding nothing new and exciting...... and deflating the energy..... when the chorus finally started, it was good but the energy was gone....
 
I kindly and carefully suggested to this individual that the PC be shortened.  I explained my reasons from a writer's POV.
 
I was attacked by that writer, and just about everyone else on that forum for even suggesting such a thing.... sacrilege ..... they all, to a person said....that song was "written well and needed no changes" It was as if I wanted to sacrifice his child to the fiery furnace....
 
Nope... Writers who refuse to even listen to a different viewpoint have a long way to go. One thing I have learned about writing is that nothing is ever written in stone and recommendations to change things from other writers is not a full frontal attack on either you, or your "baby".  I've worked with a writer who feels the same way I do.... nothing is sacred in a song lyric or musically. We've scrapped each others verses, choruses, changed things around and we came out the other side with a much better and more well written song as a result. It's only on rare occasions that we do stick up for a certain line or word..... and when that happens, the other accepts it and works with it.
 
Perhaps a way to get that fellow to see the light of a songwriter's day would be to first work with him on a collaborated song so he gets a real world experience and see's that lyrics are often replaced with something so much better than the original first thought rough draft.  After seeing that, he may even come forward and ask for some "review" on his other, older stuff.  Start gentle... Instead of saying it that way, how about if we said this instead? .. sure beats, "that's a sucky line".....  I know YOU would never say that to someone.... but trust me... I have heard those kinds of comments about my stuff from other musicians.
 
 
 
 

Herb this is a great post! It's a shame you got bashed, but that's one of the risks we take when we try to talk about another man's baby. It's kinda the reason I don't post many critiques to the song forum anymore. I always had the feeling my views (though appreciated by some) were not appreciated by others. So I'm just way more selective these days as I NEVER want to hurt anyone, honest.
 
That said, your post sort of reminds me of when Philip and I work together. As most know, Philip is never crazy about over-commercialized music or anything cliche. I'm the commercial guy that always pushes hooks either out of him, or brings them into the song when they may not be as apparent. I think what I bring to the table helps to make our partnership unique as well as it keeping us happy with what we put out.
 
The other side of the coin....is what Philip does to reel ME back in as well. His quirkiness and unique style of writing is amazing in my opinion. He comes up with some really great songs as well as parts of songs. Without me, he's still be in great shape...but I think the commercial value I add helps to bring the music to a different light. Without HIM in the mix, we may be left with a super commercial tune that might not be as interesting. So we off-set one another yet still compliment at the same time.
 
I think writing is at its best when you have different elements within the song, but like you, if the chorus doesn't hit me like a chorus (which is why I mentioned Dream Theater before in my other post. They went from massive chorus lines to "huh? that's it?" chorus lines) with that climax, it's a letdown and is definitely deflating as you mentioned.
 
I think the main thing to consider in all of this is...."who are you and what are you?" Meaning, if you are a hobbyist that just wants to write, you do what you want. If you want to make money today at this, you do what is required/requested. If you want to enjoy music and write within a band or you are searching for your identity or a band identity, you do what you do and see where you end up, ya know?
 
I just looked at the question here and said to myself...."ok, let's step out of the musician line of thinking. Do you tell someone that is asking for advice on a pop or hip-hop song to write as crazy and weird as you want to? Or do you tell them the obvious thing which is "write for the genre, be true to yourself but also consider who you are writing for?" I would feel I was doing anyone asking that question a dis-service if I answered any other way. If the hook isn't there in today's times here in 2014, you lose. Go big or go home....IF you are really serious about the possibility of making money. If not, be like the 2 million other artists that are probably the most incredible in the world that never make a dime or get an ounce of notoriety. We all fall into that category...or we'd certainly not be here....so, regardless of what I say, I'm going against my own advice. :)
 
-Danny

Guitarhacker
Possibly.... I use this theory.... I write what I feel.   If it's in my head and of soul and is seeking a way out through a song I will write it whether I think it has hit potential or not. I simply write each song to the best of my ability.
 
I think every great songwriter write in this manner to one degree or another.
 
It is through the process of writing many, many songs that the truly great ones have a chance to shine.
 
Jeffery Steele, super hit writer in the country music market said in a seminar I was able to attend that he simply writes at least one song a day as a primary goal. 99 out of 100 are throw aways, destined to never see the light of day..... but that other 1% .... yeah, those are the ones everyone is singing the words to at the concerts. He said he doesn't try to write a hit... he simply writes.
 
Of all the stuff I write, there is only a handful which I would even consider letting a publisher hear.
 
I've heard it said another way... Play the game, and the score will take care of itself.
 
Just write.... every month, every week, every day if you can.... just write.

Well said, Guitarhacker.

I write to write.  Being creative without restrictions or limitations is a wonderful outlet for me.  Many times I will work on a hook or what I think could make a commercial hit but in the end, I let the creativity flow.  I appreciate originality and good songwriting attributes (good lyrics, melody, and relevance) over polished meaningless songs written just for commercial sake.  
 
 

Well said Greg!