Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project

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Jay Tee 4303
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2014/01/10 14:19:50 (permalink)

Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project

Template set up, with all major config in place, a drum softsynth fed by two MIDI tracks, one just a hihat metronome, with a simple one measure 4/4 MIDI pattern, repeated 200 measures, the other a full kit with no MIDI data for later enhancement using pads or a keyboard. Then a track each for MIDI and analog bass, MIDI and analog guitar, keys with softsynth routing, and two vocal tracks, one for wireless mics and scratch vocals, one routed for premium mics and pres. From there, I can clone as many tracks as I need to comp an entire arrangement, however...
 
On the MIDI side, example drums or bass, its simple to use the Step Sequencer to create a pattern I can just grab the edge of and drag out for 200 repititions, or ever how many I need. Next I can lay down a 4 bar audio track for the melodic or chord foundation of say, a verse. Then I can set loop points to match selection and have it repeat endlessly while I get the rest of the verse fleshed out via experimentation.
 
What I'm wanting to do next is something similar to what happened with the drums, UNloop the piece, and drag or otherwise create multiple successive instances of the chord progression or melody, on an audio track, for a set or unlimited number of measures, to lay the groundwork for a transition to say, the chorus.
 
(For the purists out there, this mechanical structure, once completed, becomes the backdrop for the mute and solo buttons to be used to lay down full length individual performances. I don't consider a piece finished till the only MIDI parts are synths, full length, and all others are full length too, excepting dubs.)
 
How do I turn a four bar audio track, say, rhythm guitar, into a 16 bar verse, without looping, with the fewest keystrokes and least creativity killing hassle?
 
Right now, I'm clipping the front end and trailing silence away, cloning the remaining segment as many times as indicated, then manually moving them to create the 16 bar section, but I know there has to be a faster way.
 
Suggestions?

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 14:30:26 (permalink)
    Groove Clip (Ctrl + L)
     
    But before you do this, make sure you trim the clip you want to loop so that it's an exact number of measure long at it starts exactly on a measure line.
     
    Once you've done that you can simply grab hold of the right hand edge of the clip (which will now have rounded edges) and drag outwards

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    gswitz
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 14:37:43 (permalink)
    A trick to make groove clips smooth is to copy the beginning to the end and cross far between the two then trim. That way the transition is perfect even for pads.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 14:57:41 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Groove Clip (Ctrl + L)
     
    But before you do this, make sure you trim the clip you want to loop so that it's an exact number of measure long at it starts exactly on a measure line.
     
    Once you've done that you can simply grab hold of the right hand edge of the clip (which will now have rounded edges) and drag outwards


    I'm running X1 in the tracking room, and so far, I believe I used "Bounce to Clip", which allowed me to drag the right edge, but didn't copy the audio wave, just extended the silence at the end.
     
    I'll try Control L next up, but probably not till next week. Do you happen to know where in the X1 menu tree "Bounce to Groove Clip" resides, and what  its really called? I knew Groove Clips were what I was after but didn't seem to find it in the various menus. Not super critical, I can certainly find it in the manual now that I know for sure that's what I'm after. Kindle's rock! I'm still wiring, and after audio, have video yet to go, but I need to be able to do just enough to practice regularly so my chops are down when the equipment is up.
     
     I also need to improve my understanding of snap to grid to set that up better than I have it, but there are videos on that. Kids here this weekend, and I don't even turn on any of the studio gear when they're here.
     
     
     
    But ideas are flowing faster than I can capture them and this has been a bottleneck.
     
    Thanks for giving me a place to begin next week!
    post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2014/01/10 15:13:34

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 15:23:56 (permalink)
    It's not a bounce as such, it simply enables you to drag the clip out, repeating as it goes.
     
    You can then do a bounce to clip if you want to convert it to a regular clip
     
    I don't think the functionality has changed since X1 - you just right click the clip in Track View and select "Groove Clip Looping"

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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 16:11:50 (permalink)
    KK.
     
    Much thanks!
     
     
    PS, tried it, success! I was looking in the Track Window and Main Menu systems before. Thanks again!

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 18:48:25 (permalink)
    By the way, just 'cause some of you guys are shortcut wizards - I always trim the clips by first moving with shift/pageup and shift/pagedown to an exact 1 beat, split, do the same at the other end, delete the bits, then click CTRL+L... This works well but I always feel it's too many steps. Is there any way to select a section of a clip and use a keyboard command for "trim to selection"? Logic used to have "split by locators" and such which I used a lot.

    Pretty please?
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/10 19:49:15 (permalink)
    Instead of splitting, you can just slip-edit the ends of the clip using the Smart tool with with snap enabled, and then groove clip it. You'll be warned that hidden parts will be discarded.

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/11 04:02:58 (permalink)
    I've gotten in trouble with that in the past with the snap snapping to some landmark very close but not on the 1, but I don't think that was in X3 because it was a good while ago. I'll give it a go, thanks! There's no trim to selection then?
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/11 12:58:36 (permalink)
    I'm guessing that's because you have Snap to Zero Crossings enabled. You'll want to disable that when snap/split locations need to be exactly on beats. You can always add a tiny fade (2-3ms) if there's a click. Snapping to zero crossings doesn't guarantee no click, anyway, as the time between a an amplitude peak and a zero crossing can be a small fraction of a millisecond which is essentially the same thing as cutting the signal off at the peak.

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/11 15:43:14 (permalink)
    Good call. To be honest there are so many snap and grid options in Sonar sometimes I get annoyed/frustrated keeping track of them all. Move to/by, the grid size, zero crossings, landmarks, etc.
    I can't recall running into such trouble with Logic. Somehow the snapping always seemed to occur the way I wanted it to. Don't know what's up with that.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Fastest Way to UNLoop a Project 2014/01/12 04:41:20 (permalink)
    Clips will still groove clip correctly with boundaries snapped to zero crossings; those boundaries will be offset from the measure/beat lines by a little bit, but the offset will be consistent from one iteration to the next so sync with the timeline won't be affected.
     
    I don't know Logic, but if it seems simpler in this regard, I'd wager it's because it doesn't offer the flexibility of snap settings that SONAR does. With flexibility comes power, but also a certain complexity and more ways to get an unexpected/undesired result. But in this particular case, it seems SONAR's got you covered either way.
     

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