Gain crunch fix?

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tindog13
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2014/01/11 12:38:33 (permalink)

Gain crunch fix?

I think I know the answer to this, when bouncing to clips I find that it increases the gain, but I didn't realize this in time and it caused a couple of crunch points in a keyboard part I'd like to save. Of course, decreasing gain doesn't help, does anyone know of a way to fix a crunch in a saved track?
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    tindog13
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/19 12:44:14 (permalink)
    I'll take that as a "no"...
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/19 12:56:08 (permalink)
    I hesitated to answer because of an uncertainty about what you meant by "crunch".
     
    If the whole has been effected and it all sounds "crunchier" in an analog sort of crunchy distortion way then it's probably baked into the bounce.
     
    If you simply clipped the stuff digitally then you can try "clip repair" which in some cases can be automated and in others requires that you hand draw smooth tops to replace the digital overs using something like the pencil tool in Sound Forge.
     
    If you want to post the individual clip I'll bet a few people will look at it and offer you an opinion about possible fixes.
     
    best regards,
    mike


    #3
    bitflipper
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/19 18:18:45 (permalink)
    I'm guessing by "crunch" you mean that an exported file is distorted because the levels were too hot. I can assume this because no such problems will occur within a DAW from bouncing alone. 32-bit floating-point data can be ridiculously over-hot without causing distortion.
     
    If my presumption is correct, then the answer is no. There is no fix because you've actually thrown data away, permanently. There's no way to get it back except, of course, going back to the DAW and re-exporting -- after first turning it down.
     
     


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    tindog13
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/31 11:28:08 (permalink)
    Cool, thanx Mike, I will certainly try that... although I suspect bitflipper is right. This digital stuff is new to me, so it's a learning process, coming from the analog world decades ago I just don't know what's possible. "Crunch" had always meant the "crunched sound" that comes from over peaking, just assumed it would be understood. Is it normal in Cakewalk (and other DAWs) for the "Bounce to clips" function to increase gain that much, and is it avoidable? What I've started doing is, prior to bouncing, decreasing the gain across the track, then increasing it the same about after the bounce. Seems inefficient.
    #5
    batsbrew
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/31 11:37:12 (permalink)
    you dont increase gain just from bouncing...
     
    the master meter should be telling you what your peaks are..
    and if you have mixed your individual channels too hot, the collective peak will be what the bounced track will show.
     
    you are not adding gain.
     
     

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    #6
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/31 15:47:40 (permalink)
    It is possible to have gain associated with bouncing.
     
    For example; with some pan laws bouncing from a stereo track to a mono track will result in gain of 3dB.
     
    In general, SONAR is a what you hear is what you get system.
     
    Another hidden gotcha is the fact that SONAR lets you adjust the hardware outputs through the driver via what most drivers call the "Main Outs". It's is best practice to leave the "Main Outs" in SONAR at "0" so that you can maintain consistency, and to set up a specific bus that you use as the "Master" output. This way you can route all your tracks and buses through a Master and control the output without actually changing the level of your hardware's gain staging. If the distortion you are hearing is happening on the hardware it is possible that you are working with inconsistent "Main Out" levels and causing a surprise in what you hear under different circumstances.
     
    Those are the 2 hidden scenarios I can think of.
     
    The other scenarios should be something that can be found by looking at all the gain stages until you find the oversight. Of course, it appears from your OP that that you can't really go back and look in this instance but you may want to keep this in mind the next time something like this arises.
     
    It's still hard to speculate about what you did. There are probably a few other choices in the bounce dialog that can result in what you have experienced. There are choices in the export dialog that can surprise you if you don't understand the ramifications. I just don't remember off the top of my head what choices you have in bounce. In any case, any of those dialog options are labeled and as such aren't hidden issues so sooner or later you will figure out what is going on and you'll get the hang of it.
     
    all the best,
    mike 


    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Gain crunch fix? 2014/01/31 15:51:11 (permalink)
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Dialogs1.14.html
     
    These are some of the dialog choices that may cause surprise if you are not familiar with the choices:
     
    Mix Enables
    As default, each of the Mix Enables options is checked, meaning that your mixdown will sound the same as playback. You can check or uncheck each of the following settings to include or exclude them from the mix:

    Track Mute/Solo. If you check this option, tracks that are currently muted are not mixed down. Also with this option checked, if any tracks are soloed, only those tracks are included in the mixdown.


    Bus Mute/Solo. If you check this option, buses that are currently muted are not mixed down. Also with this option, if any buses are soloed, only the buses soloed are included in the mixdown.


    Track Automation. If you don’t check this option, any volume and pan automation, including initial volume and pan settings, is ignored when creating the new track(s). The amplitude of the raw data in the tracks is used, and the pan is C, or centered.


    Clip Automation. If you don’t check this option, any clip automation, including any trim settings, is ignored when creating the new track(s).


    Bus Automation


    FX Automation


    Track FX. If you don’t check this option, any effects patched into various tracks’ patch points, including any plug-in synthesizers patched into track fx patch points, are ignored when creating the new track(s).


    Bus FX. If you don’t check this option, any effects patched into buses, including any plug-in synthesizers patched into buses, are ignored when creating the new track(s).


    #8
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