Latency question

I'm running x1 on an I7 with 16 gigs of ram and two hard drives.  Although I haven't measured it, the latency when I try real time monitoring of inputs or softsynths, is much higher than the ms displayed on the latency setting in preferences.  When I put it down to the minimum (about 2 ms) it is still audible, and when I put it higher, the echo seems much greater than what it is saying.  When I run a softsynth at this setting, with other tracks, my system starts glitching.  Is the number there just a "serving suggestion?"  (approximation).  Are there other settings I'm missing that could bring my latency down? 
PLUS: I'm getting an editional wierd latency when I start recording: set the latency to 2 ms, play something into kontact on the keyboard, and after a bit a huge latency is introduced, even though initially it was responding quickly ?!?
Thanks!

Another quick question... what driver mode are you running (ASIO with drivers specific to your hardware is highly preferred, WDM is a close second... any others with see delays as you speak of)?

I don't have any effects running, I don't think.  When I look at driver mode, it's showing WDM/KS.  For some reason, there is no ASIO showing up for my card (MOTU 24/i with motu internal card).   There is an ASIO, but it appears to be ASIOforall that I might have installed at some time, which is refusing to load with my sound card.  Shouldn't MOTU specific drivers be showing up?  Or maybe MOTU doesn't use ASIO?

+1 on removing ASIO4ALL, since you have an audio interface, which should have ASIO drivers of its own.
 
I recommend you switch your driver mode to ASIO, and point Sonar to use your audio interface.  If ASIO4ALL was removed prior to switching to ASIO, then I believe Sonar will automatically find and assign your dedicated audio interface, if you click Apply after switching to ASIO driver mode.
 
I think you will find instantaneous relief from your latency issues, once you switch to your interface and ASIO.
 
I suggest settings as follows, as a reasonable starting point:
 
Audio interface: Sample Rate of either 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128
Sonar: Driver mode of ASIO, Sample Rate set to match what you set your interface to (44.1 k or 48 k), Record Bit-Depth of 24 bits.
 
In my opinion, you want to end up at or just under a total roundtrip latency in Sonar of 10 milliseconds.  That number is a reasonable balance.
 
The above is predicated on your having previously installed your audio interface drivers, (sorry - had to mention that)
 
Hope that helps, 
 
Bob Bone
 

I actually have Windows sounds turned off, but do have the default Windows audio device set to the on-board sound chip, rather than the audio interface.
 
I then set each audio application that I want to have use the audio interface, to explicitly use the audio interface, and all other applications, such as Windows Media Player, use the default on-board sound.
 
This way, no Windows conflicts arise, and it works well for me, plus, I can have WMP playing while my Sonar is up and running, in case I need to do that, and there is no problem with doing that.
 
Bob Bone
 

I removed asio4all from windows, and installed the latest MOTU drivers.  Here's what happens: it still defaults to WDM drivers.  When I try to set it to ASIO, it says my audio card (MOTO PCI 424) is unavailable.   In other words, it is acting as if MOTU doesn't provide ASIO, although on their site they say (if I remember correctly) it does. 
NOTE: I noticed the following: when I try to record a softsynth in real time, there is low latency until it glitches, and at that point it induces a large latency.  Don't know why.  I think it can handle it when I don't try to record simultaneously a bunch of tracks, which would imply drive overload(?).  I have two drives, I7, 16 gigs of ram, the performance meter is barely budging.  I don't have enough of a technical background to understand how this is happening. 

Mr Bone, you are indeed God, as you were correct, that was the magic trick.  There was no way I could have guessed this on my own.  ASIO seems noisier,  but it may be that it has a higher output, and it is my preamps.  I'll run more tests on latency etc. and post back.

+1 Bob is a great guy!
 
Now that we have you in the best driver mode and running, take a look at these preference options and see where they are set (Edit->Preferences):
 
Audio->Devices: You should not be seeing a list of your ASIO devices, and to optimize your system, should only check the ones you are actually using (I typically leave mine as 2in/2out and leave the remainder unchecked).
 
Audio->Driver Settings:
Timing Masters: Be sure the two "Timing Masters" are assigned to your MOTU. This should happen automatically when switching to ASIO mode, but I have seen a couple instances where it did not.
 
The "ASIO Panel" button at the bottom is where you will want to set bit-depth, sampling rate, and ASIO latency. For my interface, I have found that it does run smoother when that panel is open while using SONAR, but this is not universal so is something else to check. I would start with something relatively "tame" and choose 24 bit, 44.1kHz sampling rate, and ASIO at 128. Verify that these correspond to the values on that Preferences tab (the only one you can probably adjust in ASIO mode is Sampling rate (the Audio Driver bit depth and Buffer Size slider will probably be greyed out). Note - some ASIO panels "lock" to SONAR, so you may need to do adjustments with this ASIO panel open, but SONAR closed, and then open SONAR and verify that the Audio->Driver Settings do match.
 
Sync and Caching (Advanced mode at the bottom): The I/O Buffer sizes near the bottom you will want to check and do this in tandem with the ASIO latency mentioned above (start with 512 for both of these)....
 
Increasing ASIO latency will reduce pops/crackles, but increase latency. Start at 128 for ASIO, and 512 for both I/O buffers. If you are still getting pops crackles, you may have to adjust to find the sweet spot:
 

1. Try adjusting I/O buffers (Advanced Mode: Preferences->Audio->Synch and Caching) both up and down until happy. 256 jumps should do.
2. If after trying all sizes up to 1024 you still have issues with playback, increase the ASIO latency to the next setting (Preferences->Audio->Driver Settings->ASIO Panel...) and go back to step 1 and repeat the I/O buffer adjustment.
3. Repeat as necessary until you find the "magic" combination for your setup.

 
Edit: Bob posted before me, I am glad our recommendations match!

The mixing latency is the audio buffer and is the round trip (digital delay) from your interface to SONAR and back out. This is important when you are using soft synth or monitoring from within SONAR itself (i.e. "real time" recording). Higher settings put less strain on your system, but increase the delay between your interface and SONAR (which can be noticeable if too high or using another mode other than ASIO). Ideally, you want to set this as low as possible without getting pops/crackles.
 
The I/O buffers (playback and recording) are buffers between your hard drive and SONAR. Too low a value may cause SONAR not to have data when it needs it and can cause drop-outs, too high a value can take too long to fill the buffer and also cause drop-outs.