agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
What is going on with this Wav?
I bounced a Zeta+2 long evolving pad to track, and this is what I got. There are no effects or other plugins on the track. Any idea what's going on here?
|
benjaminfrog
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 477
- Joined: 2006/11/05 12:26:57
- Location: Minneapolis
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 07:42:59
(permalink)
That's pretty weird. Do you have DC offset correction engaged? If not, you might try turning it on and bouncing down again.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 Pro x64 ASRock Z97 Pro4 i7-4790K 4.0GHz 32GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 4600 RME Fireface UFX http://www.sewardsound.com/
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 07:47:12
(permalink)
It looks like massive DC offset, lots of odd ordered harmonics, and some severe clipping on the output of the synth. Does it sound like what you think it sounded like or is this a bounce gone bad? best regards, mike
|
agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 16:28:41
(permalink)
DC offset was not checked, but I have checked it and re-bounced and am seeing the same result. The resulting WAV does not sound like the source track (I'm bouncing 'raw track') but doesn't sound 'corrupted', it just sounds off, deader. I tried a 'What You Hear' bounce with the track going straight to the sound card (no bus) and... same result. I tried an export to desktop and imported it back in and... same result. I will say this: I didn't experience this problem when bouncing a pad with FM8 the other day in another project.
|
agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 16:36:34
(permalink)
another update: I replaced it with an FM9 patch (not very similar, admittedly, just something that would keep speaking as the other one does) and it's straight down the middle, no offset. Maybe the issue is internal to Z3ta+2? Or maybe the specific patch I was using? ["which was classic content/textures/constantly moving (hold"]
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 16:39:58
(permalink)
DC offset correction will probably only work on audio that is actually recorded through an Analog to Digital converter. Synthesized DC offset rendered in a bounce, if that is what it is, is probably not routed through the same flow where SONAR's DC offset correction occurs. If it sounds close to what you think it is sounding like when you play it back on the fly then it's probably just the characteristic of the patch you have chosen or set up. I wouldn't bother comparing to another patch to determine of something is wrong. It is a synthesizer and synthesizers can produce some very unique signals. Good luck. best regards, mike
|
agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 16:43:43
(permalink)
I just don't understand why, if it's just the patch, the results on 'live playback' (running the engine from the MIDI in real time) would have a different result than bouncing the audio at the same project bit depth/rate and without any other routing or processing.  Annoying. I guess I'll find a different patch to mess with and hope for the best.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 17:07:20
(permalink)
Are you saying that there is a live waveform drawing on playback that visually appears different, or are you saying that there is a slight difference in sound, or both? I think you can actually expect that a complex patch with oscillators, synthesis, and or delay lines will play back slightly different every time you run through the sequence. It is especially apparent when you compare the results of live performance with a complex patch (playing a keyboard or twisting parameter knobs etc.) and playing back as a sequence with automation. It is one reason people have asked for the simplicity of internal routing of outputs to other track so that performances can be recorded just as they are performed. Having said that, I am just being optimistic that there's is nothing problematic happening... you could possibly have discovered some issue that can be improved. Good luck. best regards, mike edit grammar
post edited by mike_mccue - 2014/01/26 17:54:17
|
agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 17:26:23
(permalink)
It was an instrument track so I wasn't seeing waveform preview, I was just going by ear (they sounded slightly different)... I have split the instrument track and now am seeing the waveform preview, and it looks normal (i.e., no offset). I'm going to try bouncing from this setup and see if it's normal... Nope... still offset. It's the bounce that's doing it, somehow.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 21:33:02
(permalink)
Interesting. Seems like it might be worth asking Cakewalk support to look at it. best, mike
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 21:54:05
(permalink)
Maybe you have a REALLY slow LFO modulating? Is this your own patch or one of the factory presets? If the latter, somebody else with Z3ta+2 could check if it's the patch. (Not me, though. I don't have it.)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
agincourtdb
Max Output Level: -27.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4753
- Joined: 2004/02/09 09:32:19
- Location: Maryland USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 22:08:37
(permalink)
It's the factory patch, "classic content/textures/constantly moving (hold" bitflipper Maybe you have a REALLY slow LFO modulating?
There undoubtedly are slow-moving LFOs... I don't see why they would act differently on bounce, or create that kind of offset though.
|
Katnip
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2005/08/19 00:57:43
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/25 22:27:46
(permalink)
I have a track on a project that has weird WAV rendering anomalies. I used Audio Snap to correct a few timing issues on a live conga track and after bouncing to clips a section of the track looked like I used a brick wall limiter to boost the volume up as high as possible. It shows solid blue for a few measures. Later in the same track the conga hits appear to be badly offset, yet when I play the track it sounds fine; no volume change or misplaced conga hits. I just assume that the rendering got wonky in spots, but the audio didn't get affected. I haven't tried to correct it, or even figure out what happened since it sounds fine. This is with SonarX3. It sure looks funny.
post edited by Katnip - 2014/01/25 22:38:38
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/26 01:41:42
(permalink)
Sounds are not always symmetrical in terms of their waveforms. Brass and wind recordings (for example) often look like this. It's not necessarily wrong, in any meaningful sense. How does it sound?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: What is going on with this Wav?
2014/01/26 06:20:31
(permalink)
Something is up worth asking CW about. I just loaded that patch (had to search for it, since it came up in "z3ta+ Classic Content -> Textures -> constantly moving (hold ), ran 30 bars of it (single note), and bounced the track. The wave form I got is what I expect to see. Z3ta+2 was inserted as a simple instrument track when I did it. No DC offset issues in the bounced wave form. Edit: I bounced it a few more times with different settings (64 bit Engine on/off) and still saw no DC offset issues. Z3ta+2 has so much variability in the generation of that wave that each bounce was noticeably different (which is sort of scary in a way).
post edited by mettelus - 2014/01/26 06:35:41
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|